Which is all sorts of backwards. Debt has liquidation preference over equity. And equity market say spacex has trillion+ of supposed equity buffer before it cuts into debt value
SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
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Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#92A stupid/naive question. Why does this affect SpaceX? They have their money(The IPO) Any third party trading value does not change that. Sure there may be individuals, officers of SpaceX who hold these instruments who will be negatively affective, but the company itself? My best guess, it makes it harder to get loans in the future.
This is about their bond, not that share price. If you are in the US, it's like having low credit score, everything you want to do financially such as leasing or financing a car, buying a house, etc.. will be more costly (higher interest rate) from the lender.
Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#93I can't comprehend for the life of me that people put their life savings in what Elon Musk is doing. Are people not seeing how he's lying about the future all the time? He said he aimed to have 5000 Optimus robots out by end of 2025, 50000 by 2026 and 10 times that in 2027. He promised in 2015 that full autonomous driving would arrive in 2 years and we aren't there yet 11 years later. He even said in 2016 that there…
Every company you mentioned has made more progress in those spaces than anyone else, and they are all clear progress towards the goals discussed.
You're mistaken.
Name 3 accomplishments he made and I'll show you world class work done elsewhere by other companies. The only thing he did which was notable was Starlink and I'll gladly grant you that. China is about to eat Starlink's lunch with their own tech.
Again I think people overestimate Musk's contributions to the world.
Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#94The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…
Is this really the worst thing? People keep bringing this up but it’s the Nasdaq 100. It would be shocking if we were talking about the SP500.
It almost was. S&P decided against it at the last minute, despite saying they would initially.
Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#95The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…
Is this really the worst thing? People keep bringing this up but it’s the Nasdaq 100. It would be shocking if we were talking about the SP500.
Yes
Index and other funds are forced to buy as their contractual mandate is to follow the index or methodology set out by the fund.
Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#96I can't comprehend for the life of me that people put their life savings in what Elon Musk is doing. Are people not seeing how he's lying about the future all the time? He said he aimed to have 5000 Optimus robots out by end of 2025, 50000 by 2026 and 10 times that in 2027. He promised in 2015 that full autonomous driving would arrive in 2 years and we aren't there yet 11 years later. He even said in 2016 that there…
Every company you mentioned has made more progress in those spaces than anyone else, and they are all clear progress towards the goals discussed.
That simply isn't true. Progress toward a goal isn't the same as leading the field.
Autonomous driving is the clearest counterexample: by March 2026 Waymo had logged over 220 million rider-only miles with nobody in the driver's seat, and was doing 400,000+ rides per week across six US metros. Tesla's consumer product is still officially "Full Self-Driving (Supervised)," and Tesla itself says it does not make the car autonomous. Mercedes has Level 3 certification. Tesla has none.
Optimus missed the stated 5,000 robots in 2025. As of July 2026, Tesla still isn't selling it and is only preparing manufacturing capacity. Meanwhile Agility's Digit is in commercial warehouse deployment today. Solar Roof is worse: Musk targeted 1,000 installations per week, and Wood Mackenzie estimated Tesla averaged about 21 in 2022. Tesla's disputed the number but offered no replacement count.
SpaceX is the real exception. It genuinely leads, and the engineering is remarkable. But it's still a decade overdue on "crewed Mars by 2024." That's the point: on the one venture where "more progress than anyone else" is actually true, the promise is still failing by over a decade.
The criticism isn't that nothing comes to pass. It's that concrete near term promises repeatedly fail and get replaced by bigger ones. When a valuation depends on being uniquely far ahead, competitors catching up erases that premium fast.
Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this really the worst thing? People keep bringing this up but it’s the Nasdaq 100. It would be shocking if we were talking about the SP500.
Yes Index and other funds are forced to buy as their contractual mandate is to follow the index or methodology set out by the fund.
ok but who is forced to buy the nasdaq 100?
Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#98I can't comprehend for the life of me that people put their life savings in what Elon Musk is doing. Are people not seeing how he's lying about the future all the time? He said he aimed to have 5000 Optimus robots out by end of 2025, 50000 by 2026 and 10 times that in 2027. He promised in 2015 that full autonomous driving would arrive in 2 years and we aren't there yet 11 years later. He even said in 2016 that there…
Every company you mentioned has made more progress in those spaces than anyone else, and they are all clear progress towards the goals discussed.
"Every company you mentioned has made more progress in those spaces than anyone else"
Lies. Waymo beats Tesla in FSD. Optimus is nothing while China has full fucking martial arts robots. It's 2026 where's that 2025 manned Mars mission? Where's that 2025 AGI promise (currently running itself in circles.) His solar roof tile idea was a bunk plan and any regular roofer could've told you that.
China made a fucking electric car that can KITT jump. The only way Teslas get off the ground is when they hit curbs at batshit insane speeds.
Elon and his companies, outside of SpaceX, are generally frauds. Down to PayPal, which thinks it has a right to YOUR MONEY if you even so much as sneeze wrong (theft by contract.)
Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#99Good thing there's a strong corporate governance model at SpaceX where the c-suite is fully accountable to an independent board of directors, who could use their majority voting power to remove that c-suite at will. Could you imagine the abuse of power that could happen if one person held over 50% of the voting power at such a company?
Interestingly enough, strong corporate governance and independent directors do not produce better returns. This is a central point in Eric Rees's book Incorruptible. https://leeds-faculty.colorado.edu/bhagat/bb-022300.pdf
guys a successful founder who lucked out and now has an academic hobby. I'd read other people if i were you.
Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status
#100Good thing there's a strong corporate governance model at SpaceX where the c-suite is fully accountable to an independent board of directors, who could use their majority voting power to remove that c-suite at will. Could you imagine the abuse of power that could happen if one person held over 50% of the voting power at such a company?
Is it abuse of power or company success? Wouldn’t shareholders vote out any crazy successful ideas Elon had? Likely bankrupting companies at their early stages?
That's why companies usually don't have a bunch of competing owners from the start. You do your big risky moves early on when you have the novel vision and a big blank check from a VC. Public stockholders aren't going to be as risk tolerant because the ROI is never going to be as high as what the early VC would get. Going public is growing up, you can't do the fun risky stuff you did when you were a young startup with more cash than sense. When you do want to do something fun as a public company, you have to do it carefully because you're dealing with other people's money now.