Live data from Hacker News

Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

marco-nett.de

261–270 of 297 posts

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#261
post #150

Huh. I turned on PROTON_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 when it became available and didn't notice any change in input lag. Probably one of the many reasons why I'm not a competitive player. I also don't like to play above 60Hz.

> I also don't like to play above 60Hz.

But why?

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#262
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Red Hat's revenue compared to Microsoft's?

Are you sure you want to put Microsoft on any kind of pedestal?

if your sole goal is making money, yes, because Microsoft have actually done a pretty good job of making money, even if that's generally at the cost of the well-being of people using their software.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think you can and will inevitably fail to do it in blind testing.

It directly impacts performance when playing twitch fps games, any input lag causes measurable difference in score. This is before people even notice it happening.

I would love to see some research confirming that 1ms of addition latency that OP claims to be able to perceive impact performance of twitchy FPS players.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also disable compositing conditionally in KDE, such as when a game window is opened.

Not in Wayland, the whole point of Wayland is to make stuff the X server + compositor + various other bits into the window manager.

For full-screen applications, Wayland has a protocol to let it display frames at its own pace - meant mostly for games for this very reason.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#265

X11 is a protocol. Xorg is an end of life'd project run by the Wayland team. Xlibre is an actively developed and maintained X11 protocol display server. Xfree86 is dead, long live Xorg. Xorg is dead, long live Xlibre!

You forgot to mention that Xlibre is run by a conspiracy theorist, who broke Xorg by having multiple bugs in his Merge Requests and is well known in the kernel mailing list for spreading vaccine misinformation and getting called out by Linus Torvalds personally for it https://lore.kernel.org/ksummit/CAHk-=wiB6FJknDC5PMfpkg4gZrb... Would you run and rely on TempleOS? Then XLibre is for you!

He didn't break Xorg because xorg isn't shipping new releases. All developers introduce bugs.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#266
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you want to put Microsoft on any kind of pedestal?

if your sole goal is making money, yes, because Microsoft have actually done a pretty good job of making money, even if that's generally at the cost of the well-being of people using their software.

[deleted]

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#267

One thing that's lovely about Linux is this kind of analysis is not only possible, but meaningful. These results will get reported back to the graphics software authors and the distribution packagers and the ecosystem will improve. There's no sense with Microsoft that kind of improvement is possible. I recently switched to Linux after years on Windows desktop, mostly because the KDE Plasma desktop feels snappier than…

>give Bazzite a whirl I never really understood Bazzite's immutable fs thing. Can one install standard dev stuff (i.e. compilers, ides, etc) easily under bazzite? This use case is the main reason why I lean towards maybe using cachyos

So how this often works is you leave the distro itself alone per say, and then install user flatpaks. This gives you user level apps with the benefits of the immutable distro.

Outside of that there are commands to install packages directly and some things must be installed that way.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>give Bazzite a whirl I never really understood Bazzite's immutable fs thing. Can one install standard dev stuff (i.e. compilers, ides, etc) easily under bazzite? This use case is the main reason why I lean towards maybe using cachyos

Yes of course, but you need to do it via the package manager. You can't "sudo make install". If you build your own software and want to install it system wide, you need to flatpack/brew it or run it in a docker container. (obviously you can modify the filesystem if you really really really want to). Bazzite is gaming oriented version of Fedora CoreOs. There are many different versions. I am running bluefin. I've trie…

> However, it's desktop oriented. Don't run CoreOs on a server.

Huh?? I think you meant something other than CoreOS there.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#269

These results are way better than what Dan Luu measured almost a decade ago: https://danluu.com/input-lag/ Even if everything else is perfect, display latency on modern panels is 1-3 ms. So all of the input processing and display pipeline can't be taking more than a millisecond or two and that's remarkable.

Well thats also partly because they use a 500hz display in tfa.

An update to Dan Luus articles with modern tech like these high refresh displays, fast gamer keyboards/mice etc would be great thought!

Post reply on HN