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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#351
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is all well and good, but who is going to use those projects if the law requires them to use Android or iOS for age verification?

"The law" requires no such thing and there's nothing preventing those new OSes form providing proper security signals. But is DOES require work - and it's much easier to complain than to put in work.

It requires a government-authorised "age verification" "app", but it does not require that it is accessible through standard protocols, so that it can work on any platform. In practice, the governments will only make it available for Android and iOS. Plus, you cannot have a free OS providing "attestation"; "attestation" is incompatible with root access and modifying the OS.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#352
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could try and put money into funding Jolla/sailfish/whatever

That wont help anything. Then you are just force to use Android, iOS, or Sailfish. It need to be a platform agnostic thing, else you're just hitching the fulcrum of civil society on private company.

Exactly. The app is only inclusive if it is accessible over a standard protocol (Web) without "attestation", so that it works for any platform. If I release a GNU/Linux distribution tomorrow, I should be able to use the app on it with only some work on my part.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#353
post #308
post #25

This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU. For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the st…

Mobile is the UI/UX equivalent of… I don’t even know… a moon landing? A wonder of the world? I’m not saying it can’t be duplicated. I’m saying if you want to build a mobile platform you need to approach it with appropriate respect for the incredible difficulty of making something that usable.

There are experimental mobile platforms, and they work fine. They won't appeal to the mass-market but there's really no reason to disallow them.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The governments won't protect them either. The governments are the ones enabling these corporations to exist and facilitate harm towards children. Maybe they shouldn't be allowed to have those corporations.

And then the moment the government does do something, "it's a totalitarian power grab!!!111"

They are doing something which is not a solution but can fake being a solution, so that the masses will accept it. An actual solution would be to regulate these social media, to prohibit addictive and manipulative algorithms.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is generally my opinion, and goodness it's swung around quite a bit. This entire debate feels like it should be solved by adequate parental controls. To the extent that it matters, I think the missing link here is "primary education should support a parent's intent to limit unrestricted internet access for their children." That is, during school activities where internet use is unavoidable, require supervision.…

To the extent that it matters, I think the missing link here is "primary education should support a parent's intent to limit unrestricted internet access for their children." That is, during school activities where internet use is unavoidable, require supervision. Don't get me started. We try to restrict internet time, no Youtube (Shorts are poison/heroin), TikTok, etc. They go to primary school and there is a teache…

I agree to prohibit them in schools, but at home it should be the family's decision.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#356
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could try and put money into funding Jolla/sailfish/whatever

That wont help anything. Then you are just force to use Android, iOS, or Sailfish. It need to be a platform agnostic thing, else you're just hitching the fulcrum of civil society on private company.

I don't disagree, but the eu needs their own mobile OS alternative in general so if they absolutely need to rely on a private company, it isn't an american one

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not entirely true. I don't have much details but I know people who started to work on two separate free software projects aiming to make supported mobile OS. These projects couldn't get funding before but they do now. Afaik it's still a battle with AI companies lobbying that soverign AI is much more important than mobile OS but there is some growing interest. Imho i don't even think some linux based alternati…

Which is all well and good, but who is going to use those projects if the law requires them to use Android or iOS for age verification?

I think the asumption being if there is gov backed mobile OS govs would also support their app ecosystem there. That's kinda the point of funding alternative free mobile OS?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

their parents won't protect them and everyone else has to pay for it. maybe they shouldn't have been allowed to have kids.

Nothing could possibly go wrong with eugenics

It can, but we’re quite good at it with all animals and plants..

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is generally my opinion, and goodness it's swung around quite a bit. This entire debate feels like it should be solved by adequate parental controls. To the extent that it matters, I think the missing link here is "primary education should support a parent's intent to limit unrestricted internet access for their children." That is, during school activities where internet use is unavoidable, require supervision.…

Homeschool and exercise close, very close, supervision over what your kids do on the internet. I'd have hated this as a child. But the case for unrestricted internet and social media access for children being harmful, at this point, seems pretty shut. For those who sadly cannot homeschool their children... well, we need to push for school choice and to dismantle the teachers' unions. Which probably ultimately is the…

People with bad takes like that give homeschooling a terrible name, and make it easier for those regularly trying to dismantle it. It's an excellent tool for responsible parents, and a horrible weapon in the hands of zealots.

I am thankful to have had extensive access to technology as a (homeschooled) kid, and parents who encouraged curiosity.

Destroy "optimize for engagement" social media, which harms everyone, and stop pretending like this is some problem that only harms children.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slave aristocracy of the Confederate States of America, and members only Communist Party of China are both democracies. What we consider democracy went through a LOT of iteration, and continues to this day. Representative first-past-the-post is a form of democracy that can have the unfortunate side effect of the minority of the electorate establishing a tyranny of the majority. There is a lot of scholarship on ho…

> The slave aristocracy of the Confederate States of America And the northern states--they had slaves too. Ulysses S. Grant, when asked why he didn't free his slaves until some time after the war, reportedly said something like "Good help is hard to come by these days." It's not easily verifiable in today's world of useless search engines and confidently wrong and/or lying AI, but this quote is, in one form or anothe…

I found the origin of that second Grant quote, and well as a boatload of other very interesting facts which one is quite unlikely to get from Google or AI these days, in "The Democratic Speaker's Hand-book" compiled by Matthew Carey, Jr., 1868.

https://archive.org/details/democraticspeake00caza

From page 32:

> Grant as a Talker

> He threatened to resign and cast his lot with the South.

> The editor of the Randolph Citizen recalls some interesting reminscenses of the great Reticent. He had a tongue at one time, it would seem:

> In the summer of 1861 General Grant, then Colonel of the Twenty-first Illinois Regiment of Infantry, was stationed at Mexico, on the North Missouri Railroad, and had command of the post. He remained several months, mingling freely with the people, regardless of the peculiar shade of any one's political opinions; and as the distinguished Colonel had then no thought of aspiring to the Presidency or a dictatorship, no occasion existed for the reticence to which latterly he owed the greater part of his popularity. Ulysses the Silent was then Ulysses the Garrulous, and embraced every fair opportunity which came in his way to express his sentiments and opinions in regard to political affairs. One of these declarations we distinctly remember. In a public conversion in Ringo's banking-house, a sterling Union man put this question to him: "What do you honestly think was the real object of this war on the part of the Federal Government?"

> "Sir," said Grant, "I have no doubt in the world that the sole object is the restoration of the Union. I will say further, though, that I am a Democrat--every man in my regiment is a Democrat--and whenever I shall be convinced that this war has for its object anything else than what I have mentioned, or that the Government designs using its soldiers to execute the purposes of the abolitionists, I pledge you my honor as a man and a soldier that I will not only resign my commission, but will carry my sword to the other side, and cast my lot with that people."

It's really quite remarkable that the victors of that war succeeded so marvelously in convincing people years later that it was about slavery--that the racist white people of the North went to war and died by the hundreds of thousands to free black slaves--and they have people utterly convinced of that to this day.

Lots of other enlightening stuff to be found in that book, and in other original sources. Get the facts now while you still can, and preserve them.

"This is only one among the many proofs I had witnessed of the fact, that the prejudice of color is not nearly so strong in the South as in the North. [In the South] it is not at all uncommon to see the black slaves of both sexes, shake hands with white people when they meet, and interchange friendly personal inquiries; but at the north I do not remember to have witnessed this once; and neither in Boston, New York, or Philadelphia would white persons generally like to be seen shaking hands and talking familiarly with blacks in the streets."

- James S. Buckingham, abolitionist

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