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Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

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Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we won't - there's significant capex on all that infra that will have to be paid down, and we won't have datacenters to help pay for it.

Call me overly cynical, but I’m willing to bet we’re already footing the bill in more than a few ways.

[deleted]

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I understand these references. The banks were too big to fail specifically because they were banks involved with the finances of every major industry and government, not simply because their (arguably specious) valuations, or even market caps, had a ton of zeroes on them. What’s the argument for OpenAI being so inherently critical and interweaved with the rest of the economy that it can’t be allowed to f…

Moreover what would a bailout even look like? The banks got loan guarantees from the government essentially. But like what happens if the government guarantees open ai's loans if the company is structurally unprofitable? Does the government create an operating subsidy?

Modeled on Chrysler, perhaps?

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if growth doesn't materialize, then the infrastructure build out plays out exactly like the dot com bubble. the biggest difference this time around is the earnings. if those fall, the rest crubmles.

How are the earnings different this time? Can you add any color to that?

In the dot-com situation earnings "didn't matter" as long as there was growth. We[1] all believed profit would come eventually. The lesson learned from that experience was that earning do sort of matter. It turns out there is a limit to selling dollars for dimes. Since then revenue, profit and unit-economics ("fundamentals") have gotten almost as much attention as they deserve.

[1] a broad and poorly defined group of "we" - typically investors and tech-bro types.

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#44

Usefulness aside, I see little evidence AI is making money (profit, not revenue) for any firm whose profit doesn't come from the AI itself or the infrastructure, including supply chain. I'd love to hear a counterexample. One such example would be of a hypothetical company that does translations for payment, and with AI they now are making more profit because they use AI to do the translation rather than pay a transla…

AI has been making a ton for advertisers for decades. Think Facebook ads, Google search ads, etc. That's a different and older kind of AI than chatbots, but it's not fundamentally different, but AI is the engine that makes their ad targeting so effective, and why they're some of the most profitable large companies on the planet.

> but it's not fundamentally different

It is. We are talking about LLMs here.

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#45
post #16

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We don't have to spend it on hardware with such short use-life to spend down those dragon hoards... The amount of money we are talking about could have given the entire US high speed commuter rail.

Or every teacher gets classroom supplies for five years.

Or treatment programs for addicts. There are a lot of economic benefits to helping folks on the lower side of the income spectrum.

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#46
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I understand these references. The banks were too big to fail specifically because they were banks involved with the finances of every major industry and government, not simply because their (arguably specious) valuations, or even market caps, had a ton of zeroes on them. What’s the argument for OpenAI being so inherently critical and interweaved with the rest of the economy that it can’t be allowed to f…

Moreover what would a bailout even look like? The banks got loan guarantees from the government essentially. But like what happens if the government guarantees open ai's loans if the company is structurally unprofitable? Does the government create an operating subsidy?

Inference is cheap, only the training is expensive. Both Bernie and Trump have suggested doing a partial government takeover of the big AI companies to start a sovereign wealth fund.

So it would look like the government taking ownership, letting investors lose their stake, and then operating as inference-only, which would turn a profit

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#47
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I understand these references. The banks were too big to fail specifically because they were banks involved with the finances of every major industry and government, not simply because their (arguably specious) valuations, or even market caps, had a ton of zeroes on them. What’s the argument for OpenAI being so inherently critical and interweaved with the rest of the economy that it can’t be allowed to f…

“National security! We can’t let China win the AI race!” Or some BS

[dead]

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#48
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to spend it on hardware with such short use-life to spend down those dragon hoards... The amount of money we are talking about could have given the entire US high speed commuter rail.

Or every teacher gets classroom supplies for five years. Or treatment programs for addicts. There are a lot of economic benefits to helping folks on the lower side of the income spectrum.

Yeah but taxing 50% of all earnings below $100k could also do that. What money can be spent on is fine but I think we’ve got a good system where people can have reward for economic output and they can use that to allocate money where they want. There are places with central planning and I don’t like them.

Personally, I’d rather the money be spent on datacenters. And as it goes, the guys with the money also would prefer that.

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#49
post #10
post #4

High growth scenario and medium growth scenario (Graph 2). I feel like an idiot asking - aren't we missing some, or at least one, scenario? Is "medium growth" for the next 4 years really the worst people can think of?

Essentially yes? The stock market operates entirely on the assumption that the lines will keep going up. As soon as they flatten the whole thing collapses onto itself.

Flatten would mean there is a profitable business model. It's been years since people have been too tired of repeatedly asking "where will the profit come from?" with no answer. This shit has exactly one direction it will end and it's not flat or up.
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