Live data from Hacker News

Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

bis.org

31–40 of 113 posts

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#31

BIS released a larger report in June that identified AI financing/sustainability as one of the biggest risks for the global economy: https://www.bis.org/publ/arpdf/ar2026e.htm

pre-echos of "too big to fail"

That's obviously how the AI labs are trying to position themselves. But slop generators are not integral to anything. They most definitely should be left to fail, and if the market so dictates, the hundreds of billions invested should go to zero.

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pre-echos of "too big to fail"

I’m not sure I understand these references. The banks were too big to fail specifically because they were banks involved with the finances of every major industry and government, not simply because their (arguably specious) valuations, or even market caps, had a ton of zeroes on them. What’s the argument for OpenAI being so inherently critical and interweaved with the rest of the economy that it can’t be allowed to f…

The value of AI and related companies on retirement funds

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#34

Usefulness aside, I see little evidence AI is making money (profit, not revenue) for any firm whose profit doesn't come from the AI itself or the infrastructure, including supply chain. I'd love to hear a counterexample. One such example would be of a hypothetical company that does translations for payment, and with AI they now are making more profit because they use AI to do the translation rather than pay a transla…

I think this is a great point.

I want to add context for Duolingo because I think it's confounded by cultural conversation. Duolingo in some Q1 earnings call stated it was going to go AI-native. They were going to switch from contractors to AI. This led to a huge PR crisis, especially on TikTok, where they used to have a big online presence and GenZ influence. I'm not sure if they ever recovered the image they had after that.

They tried, and they got pushback from their consumer base.

Your Costco example makes a lot of sense to me. Right now at my company we are spending hundreds and thousands per employee, but it's not like everyone has an idea that is meant to be integrated into product. So everyone's just making more vaporware.

I do think this is the year the numbers and projections will start coming down to the ground. We can already see this with the fact that the leaders at the frontier labs have stopped talking about AGI and have started talking about token costs and just direct comparisons. It's no longer pie in the sky.

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#35

BIS released a larger report in June that identified AI financing/sustainability as one of the biggest risks for the global economy: https://www.bis.org/publ/arpdf/ar2026e.htm

pre-echos of "too big to fail"

The thing about bailing OpenAI or Anthropic is that they would need a new bailout every few months.

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pre-echos of "too big to fail"

I’m not sure I understand these references. The banks were too big to fail specifically because they were banks involved with the finances of every major industry and government, not simply because their (arguably specious) valuations, or even market caps, had a ton of zeroes on them. What’s the argument for OpenAI being so inherently critical and interweaved with the rest of the economy that it can’t be allowed to f…

Moreover what would a bailout even look like? The banks got loan guarantees from the government essentially.

But like what happens if the government guarantees open ai's loans if the company is structurally unprofitable? Does the government create an operating subsidy?

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#37
post #11

I've seen other reports that suggest the level of investment for eclipses the internet buid out in 2000 and the railroad boom more than a century earlier. I wonder if they use different ways of landing on these wildly different assessments

Yes. In inflation adjusted dollars spending on AI dwarfs previous "megaprojects". But as a fraction of GDP it's fairly modest -- comparable to the Apollo Project. It's a sign of how much the economy has grown that under "1% of GDP for a few years" now is far bigger than "over 10% of GDP for a few decades" was in the late 1800s.

You seem to be implying that railway spending was "over 10% of GDP for a few decades" in the late 1800s. If yes then can you trace that back to a methodology? I tried and found much lower numbers, around 3% average over the peak decade.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44805979

Your estimate of current AI spending is also low. Hyperscaler capex alone is around 2% of US GDP, not including other costs (neoclouds, employee comp, etc.).

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#38

Usefulness aside, I see little evidence AI is making money (profit, not revenue) for any firm whose profit doesn't come from the AI itself or the infrastructure, including supply chain. I'd love to hear a counterexample. One such example would be of a hypothetical company that does translations for payment, and with AI they now are making more profit because they use AI to do the translation rather than pay a transla…

The risk here is that either AI commoditizes the software "why ask duolingo to ask chatgpt when I can do so directly?" or simply adds cost to an existing service "why does every costco employee now cost 10% more?"

So far, there hasn't been a clear win for "software wrapping an existing LLM" - if the AI is good enough, then the users can go directly to the source.

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pre-echos of "too big to fail"

That's obviously how the AI labs are trying to position themselves. But slop generators are not integral to anything. They most definitely should be left to fail, and if the market so dictates, the hundreds of billions invested should go to zero.

[dead]

Re: Financing the AI boom: from cash flows to debt [pdf]

#40

Usefulness aside, I see little evidence AI is making money (profit, not revenue) for any firm whose profit doesn't come from the AI itself or the infrastructure, including supply chain. I'd love to hear a counterexample. One such example would be of a hypothetical company that does translations for payment, and with AI they now are making more profit because they use AI to do the translation rather than pay a transla…

AI has been making a ton for advertisers for decades. Think Facebook ads, Google search ads, etc.

That's a different and older kind of AI than chatbots, but it's not fundamentally different, but AI is the engine that makes their ad targeting so effective, and why they're some of the most profitable large companies on the planet.

Post reply on HN