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Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

theregister.com

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Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#321

Post by spwa4 »

infinite_spin wrote: post #314
spwa4 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they should take away other people's money because they can, because of stuff that happened a long time ago, and when they feel like they should be able to just take stuff from other people for some random long ago reason ? I'm so exited finding someone like you! I'm much like Ireland. I was born desperately poor. My parents gave me second hand presents on , if that. I couldn't pay for my school things back then.…

> So they should take away other people's money because they can Ireland isn't stealing from other people by changing their tax policies to attract business, that isn't theft by any stretch of the imagination outside of a libertarian one that posits all taxation is theft.. and you haven't answered my question: Why should Ireland change their tax policy to benefit other (much larger) governments? It's fairly insulting…

The reasoning that Ireland's tax policy is theft is not discussed here from a "taxation is theft" perspective, but from a "we should tax the rich" perspective. Because Ireland is in the EU, this effectively halves taxes on most big international companies in the EU (less than half of what it is for everybody else/normal companies in the EU), and makes it 12.5% for a few specific FANG companies.

Which is deeply unfair, from two main perspectives:

1) everyone should be taxed the same. Big, small, local, global, ... it should not matter (if anything global should be taxed more than local)

2) it only works because everyone's tax revenues go down a lot, which means yet again the rich escape taxes

3) it makes something like EU corporate tax initiative, which is horrible (it involves an extremely complicated way of attributing specific transactions to specific locations and then taxing them locally. However, like the EU VAT initiative it's main problem is how complicated it is)

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#322

Post by infinite_spin »

spwa4 wrote: post #321
infinite_spin wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they should take away other people's money because they can Ireland isn't stealing from other people by changing their tax policies to attract business, that isn't theft by any stretch of the imagination outside of a libertarian one that posits all taxation is theft.. and you haven't answered my question: Why should Ireland change their tax policy to benefit other (much larger) governments? It's fairly insulting…

The reasoning that Ireland's tax policy is theft is not discussed here from a "taxation is theft" perspective, but from a "we should tax the rich" perspective. Because Ireland is in the EU, this effectively halves taxes on most big international companies in the EU (less than half of what it is for everybody else/normal companies in the EU), and makes it 12.5% for a few specific FANG companies. Which is deeply unfair…

> we should tax the rich

> everyone should be taxed the same

Ireland, as a sovereign nation, gets to decide their own tax policy.

None of this is theft, you're just maligning Ireland for their choice of tax policy, something they're entirely within their rights to decide without external influence.

I think we're at an impasse.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#323

Post by AlecSchueler »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #320
AlecSchueler wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly kind of yes. The world is burning, and we can't keep growing like this. Tech optimism made some sense 20 years ago but a lot of us who have been here in that time are feeling pretty jaded.

That is insane take. Datacenters are built where it makes most economic sense (aka cheapest aka cleanest power). If you build where power is expensive - you are burning world even more.

Maybe we don't build them at all and plant some trees instead. Ireland could definitely benefit more from that.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#324

Post by psd1 »

hinkley wrote: post #296
psd1 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fallout came from Chernobyl and Fat Boy. There is no fallout from a reactor that doesn't explode, and Chernobyl exploded for human reasons rather than structural ones. Yes, waste lasts a long time. That's mostly in the form of a pond of slightly clicky water. The fear is overblown. See http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2026/ph241/teixeira2/

People gave their lives to dig underneath Chernobyl. If they hadn’t the aquifers in Eastern Europe would be radioactive for the next million years.

Good point, hinkley (see what i did there?). I forgot about alternate timelines.

However. People all over the world live on top of aquifers that have been naturally radioactive for millions of years. See you at the protest against granite bedrock.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#325

Post by psd1 »

fragmede wrote: post #277
psd1 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We punish companies when they collude to keep salaries low No we fucking don't. I have no idea how you reached that position in the uber era.

https://www.justice.gov/atr/usdoj-antitrust-division-us-v-ad...

Ah ok, it has actually happened. Although that case was actually about a commission not to actively poach from each other. I also think that $75m to a tech giant is not much of a punishment.

I don't have a list of material evidence, so i don't expect to convince anyone else. Appreciate the reply.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#326

Post by Chris2048 »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #320
AlecSchueler wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly kind of yes. The world is burning, and we can't keep growing like this. Tech optimism made some sense 20 years ago but a lot of us who have been here in that time are feeling pretty jaded.

That is insane take. Datacenters are built where it makes most economic sense (aka cheapest aka cleanest power). If you build where power is expensive - you are burning world even more.

Does Ireland have the cheapest cleanest power?

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#327

Post by _3u10 »

esseph wrote: post #242
_3u10 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should allocate electricity to less productive uses to benefit people the most? People should just keep driving inefficient cars rather than having gas prices increase so they can evaluate whether getting a more efficient car makes sense for them.

> People should just keep driving inefficient cars rather than having gas prices increase so they can evaluate whether getting a more efficient car makes sense for them. You're assuming many can even buy a car right now, let alone a new one.

I don't live in a "first world" country, where I live people have cars, some even chinese ones.

I would assume in the first world people can have cars and air conditioning, maybe not having AC, a car, or a home is a first world problem now. If an average person in a middle income country can drive a car, surely its possible for most of humanity.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#328

Post by pbgcp2026 »

distances wrote: post #266
pbgcp2026 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exhibit 1: Why West will lose on AI – they will run out of power. LOL. Thanks to commenters. (teachrdan and hinkley) Yes, I know the reasoning. I am one of those who is against nuclear power stations, Chernobyl and Fukushima are too vivid. But . If we don't "re-industrialise" the West, we die in a cold and darkness. Literally. We already killed marine ecosystem in Black and Caspian seas. Moving as planned in Gulf. Wi…

> With amount of oil tankers just burning out in the open the "carbon emission" goals seem like a joke If you refer to the burning Russian tankers in the Azov, that should reduce emissions. The carried oil would've been used internally in Russia, so it's better to just burn it before it gets used, the same emissions would've been there anyway. And burning the tankers and refineries restricts Russian oil production, w…

There is a difference between "refining" crude oil and burning it in a dirty way. And unfortunately it's not only russian tankers ... Gulf, Black Sea, soon to be Baltic.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#329

Post by spwa4 »

infinite_spin wrote: post #322
spwa4 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasoning that Ireland's tax policy is theft is not discussed here from a "taxation is theft" perspective, but from a "we should tax the rich" perspective. Because Ireland is in the EU, this effectively halves taxes on most big international companies in the EU (less than half of what it is for everybody else/normal companies in the EU), and makes it 12.5% for a few specific FANG companies. Which is deeply unfair…

> we should tax the rich > everyone should be taxed the same Ireland, as a sovereign nation, gets to decide their own tax policy. None of this is theft, you're just maligning Ireland for their choice of tax policy, something they're entirely within their rights to decide without external influence. I think we're at an impasse.

> None of this is theft, you're just maligning Ireland for their choice of tax policy, something they're entirely within their rights to decide without external influence.

I think there are some serious caveats here, such as Ireland signing both the OECD minimum tax treaty, then doing this anyway. I feel like that's at the very least dishonest.

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