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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#271

Post by Deukhoofd »

Erikun wrote: post #36

Im confused, the github discussion says that the README says App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation But I can't find that anywhere. Am I missing something?

This entire issue is a disaster of a Github issue. It looks like its on the entirely wrong repository. I did eventually find the text in another repository; the one for the Android reference implementation: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android...

It was removed from there to clarify the entire "Hey, this application is not done yet"

It being in the reference implementation instead of the spec is a massive difference. One means that it's just there to show an example, and we should push national governments to do it better in their implementations, while the other would mean that it'd be a requirement for all implementations, which it doesn't appear to be.

It also looks like the reference implementation removed that functionality entirely several months ago: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-app-android...

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#272

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

anal_reactor wrote: post #119
roundabout-host wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"only if you choose to share your personal data with either Google or Apple"?

How is that different from having a banking app installed? Or a government ID app?

I have neither. Phones are too much of a security liability to be linked into such sensitive realms of personal life.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#273

Post by wsng »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #235
wsng wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have this information anyway if you have an EU passport or an identity card. The government app allows you to share selected properties of these documents with third parties.

It’s not only government shares that info, the government can keep track on with which parties they shared that info and for what purpose. As an example if I’m obliged to share my ID data via government to open a twitter account how would I know that the government would not link my twitter account to my ID and later use that info keep track of me and prosecute? People would think that it would never happen, but not…

The app is open source, and it doesn't do that.

I agree that governments should minimize collection of their citizen's data. I just don't see where it is supposed to happen in this case.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#274

Post by watwut »

LPisGood wrote: post #259
toasty228 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. Ping me when people are physically tortured by police for facebook posts, because that's what happens there.

How about 30 years in prison for distributing zines?

USA is not member of EU

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#276

Post by mytailorisrich »

reloadtak wrote: post #161
mytailorisrich wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is all a political move. This so-called "EU sovereignty" drive is in fact aimed at further reducing sovereignty of the member states via further transfer of power and control to the EU. These digital ID wallets do exactly that. Member states lose control of the ID infrastructure, which will now be controlled by the EU. There isn't much sovereignty left at national level...

Each member state has to implement the system themselves. Where is the loss of control?

Where is control in being mandated to implement and EU-wide, EU-defined system? This is a net loss.

My previous comment should be taken in its entirety. The loss of sovereignty of individual countries is comprehensive across all domains and this is just one brick in the wall.

This is nothing new, this is what "European integration" means. I wanted to point out the very newspeak-esque use of the term "sovereignty" in Europe at the moment.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#277

Post by inigyou »

bennettnate5 wrote: post #253
BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Idiocracy scenario we've stepped into isn't much better...

It is. It's far from good, but it's much better than eugenics.

Note that we do have a system of eugenics, which we call money.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#278

Post by stravant »

casey2 wrote: post #158
skrebbel wrote: post #30

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

Then get your kid off Roblox. I promise you that Roblox exploits more children in a single day than all sex offenders put together do in a year. Why is pedophilia such a problem on Roblox? It's because they heavily advertise towards children and one of the fastest ways for children to make money is asking their parents, then next is prostitution. Roblox is uniquely bad because they heavily advertise both products and…

People don't want to make games, they want to make multiplayer games.

Very few kids are going to go though the incredible difficulty of making multiplayer work in something like Godot.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#279

Post by AnthonyMouse »

omnimus wrote: post #100
blop wrote: post #25

This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU. For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the st…

This is not entirely true. I don't have much details but I know people who started to work on two separate free software projects aiming to make supported mobile OS. These projects couldn't get funding before but they do now. Afaik it's still a battle with AI companies lobbying that soverign AI is much more important than mobile OS but there is some growing interest. Imho i don't even think some linux based alternati…

Which is all well and good, but who is going to use those projects if the law requires them to use Android or iOS for age verification?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#280

Post by sajithdilshan »

wsng wrote: post #273
sajithdilshan wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only government shares that info, the government can keep track on with which parties they shared that info and for what purpose. As an example if I’m obliged to share my ID data via government to open a twitter account how would I know that the government would not link my twitter account to my ID and later use that info keep track of me and prosecute? People would think that it would never happen, but not…

The app is open source, and it doesn't do that. I agree that governments should minimize collection of their citizen's data. I just don't see where it is supposed to happen in this case.

What would you do that, they start with open source app, make the online is mandatory and once it’s established and mandated, then they closed source the app and implement data collection?

There is no guarantee that the app would stay open source and under public scrutiny forever. Governments have done way shady things in the past. Given the recent push for chat control, I would never trust anything put out by EU.

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