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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#251

Post by SoftTalker »

simoncion wrote: post #245
SoftTalker wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is demanding age verification because the websites and platforms completely punted on the issue of keeping inappropriate content from children. Yes parents have a role here but we live in a society and we depend on/demand everyone doing their part. We (the tech sector) made our own bed here.

> Government is demanding age verification because the websites and platforms completely punted on the issue of keeping inappropriate content from children. Nah. Parental Controls are baked into every major consumer OS. If government cared about giving guardians the tools needed to care for the vulnerable ones they're responsible for, they'd require those parental controls to be beefed up [0] and that it be a require…

I agree... the government's plan (as usual) misses the mark and probably won't solve the problem. But the reason the government is getting involved is precisely because parental controls (if any) that were delivered by the platforms were too hidden, too complicated, and had to be set for every app or website instead of once on the device and have that enforced on everything.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#252

Post by simoncion »

SoftTalker wrote: post #251
simoncion wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government is demanding age verification because the websites and platforms completely punted on the issue of keeping inappropriate content from children. Nah. Parental Controls are baked into every major consumer OS. If government cared about giving guardians the tools needed to care for the vulnerable ones they're responsible for, they'd require those parental controls to be beefed up [0] and that it be a require…

I agree... the government's plan (as usual) misses the mark and probably won't solve the problem. But the reason the government is getting involved is precisely because parental controls (if any) that were delivered by the platforms were too hidden, too complicated, and had to be set for every app or website instead of once on the device and have that enforced on everything.

> But the reason the government is getting involved is...

Nope.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#253

Post by bennettnate5 »

BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #246
inigyou wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing could possibly go wrong with eugenics

The Idiocracy scenario we've stepped into isn't much better...

It is. It's far from good, but it's much better than eugenics.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#254

Post by TacticalCoder »

> European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

As a european if I wanted to see the glass half-full I'd say: at least the good news is that from that headline we can name a gigantic loser... Microsoft.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#255

Post by microtonal »

simoncion wrote: post #245
SoftTalker wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is demanding age verification because the websites and platforms completely punted on the issue of keeping inappropriate content from children. Yes parents have a role here but we live in a society and we depend on/demand everyone doing their part. We (the tech sector) made our own bed here.

> Government is demanding age verification because the websites and platforms completely punted on the issue of keeping inappropriate content from children. Nah. Parental Controls are baked into every major consumer OS. If government cared about giving guardians the tools needed to care for the vulnerable ones they're responsible for, they'd require those parental controls to be beefed up [0] and that it be a require…

Nah. Parental Controls are baked into every major consumer OS.

Even the parental controls that are there are a train wreck. Our kid has an iPhone and the parental controls have all kinds of weird issues like, you give them 15 minutes of WhatsApp daily. First time on a day they start WhatsApp it says that all their time is up. Or suddenly they cannot run an application that was permitted by a parent. Then you uninstall and install the app again and suddenly it works.

It is unusable.

There web is also a huge hole in all of this. A lot of services you can also use as a website. A whitelist is too limiting and a blacklist is a daily task to maintain (and would require spying on your kid).

I also prefer to avoid age attestation altogether, but I am also not sure what the solution is. I think many people do not realize how much social pressure there is to use certain apps/games and how bad parental controls are. Yes, we say "no" to a lot of things, but you cannot say "no" to everything. Missing certain cultural touchstones (certain TV shows, certain games) makes your child an outsider.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#257

Post by microtonal »

elevation wrote: post #172
elevation wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Older systems were imperfect and were understood to be. I've meet veterans who joined the Navy at 14 or 16. I've met many College students who can pass as old enough to buy alcohol, especially with a fake id. Dead people are sometimes registered to vote. We know this and have systems to try to catch these exceptions. But cellphone access is different; it's assumed to be perfect, but it's increasingly being moderated…

This year, an octogenarian friend got locked out of his android phone permanently. He had never had a PIN on his Samsung phone. It started when he signed up at a new bank, giving them his phone number. Somehow the bank enrolled his in their online banking system, which notified Samsung, who remotely initiated the "let's give your phone a pin" flow, presumably to protect him during online banking. (This happened witho…

It started when he signed up at a new bank, giving them his phone number. Somehow the bank enrolled his in their online banking system, which notified Samsung, who remotely initiated the "let's give your phone a pin" flow, presumably to protect him during online banking.

Do you have a proof that this actually a thing? I don't see what mechanism exists to do this and I don't see why Samsung would even bother to do this.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#258

Post by dlahoda »

joe_mamba wrote: post #75
mytailorisrich wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is all a political move. This so-called "EU sovereignty" drive is in fact aimed at further reducing sovereignty of the member states via further transfer of power and control to the EU. These digital ID wallets do exactly that. Member states lose control of the ID infrastructure, which will now be controlled by the EU. There isn't much sovereignty left at national level...

This is totally not the EU version of China's social credit score system and WeChat SSO system. It will totally not be used to sanction you the moment you become a nuisance to the EU elites by saying "wrong speech" that goes against their mandated doctrine or pointing out their acts of corruption or dismantling of democracy. The EU building in Brussels even has the word "DEMOCRACY" plastered on the front in large bol…

10000 basis points agree.

Add here shared border control since 2027 in eu, and chat control now.

And prominent names like democratic republics of Kongo and North Korea.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#259

Post by LPisGood »

toasty228 wrote: post #141
snottynose wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny, concomittant all this chest beating about representing open societies, democracies, unlike those creepy evil authoritarian states which we don't like, that the EC seems hell bent on proving we can have a police state _just_ as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. This is not how we were supposed to prove that we are better.

> as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. Ping me when people are physically tortured by police for facebook posts, because that's what happens there.

How about 30 years in prison for distributing zines?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#260

Post by simoncion »

microtonal wrote: post #255
simoncion wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government is demanding age verification because the websites and platforms completely punted on the issue of keeping inappropriate content from children. Nah. Parental Controls are baked into every major consumer OS. If government cared about giving guardians the tools needed to care for the vulnerable ones they're responsible for, they'd require those parental controls to be beefed up [0] and that it be a require…

Nah. Parental Controls are baked into every major consumer OS. Even the parental controls that are there are a train wreck. Our kid has an iPhone and the parental controls have all kinds of weird issues like, you give them 15 minutes of WhatsApp daily. First time on a day they start WhatsApp it says that all their time is up. Or suddenly they cannot run an application that was permitted by a parent. Then you uninstal…

> Even the parental controls that are there are a train wreck.

As I said:

  If government cared about giving guardians the tools needed to care for the vulnerable ones they're responsible for, they'd require those parental controls to be beefed up...
> There web is also a huge hole in all of this.

and as I went on to say:

  ...and that it be a requirement that online services and both local and remote software be required to honor the restrictions required by those Parental Controls.
I expect that you don't, but if you'd like to argue that it's impossible for the government to do either or both things, then I'd argue that it's impossible for them to make age and/or ID verification work.
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