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New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

reuters.com

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Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#101

Post by cucumber3732842 »

giantg2 wrote: post #56
aynyc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC owns those lands for water. ADK has forever wild in NYS constitution. They are not gonna get relax for data center because they discharge water and noise and add significant infrastructure change. Solar farm on the other hand might go up tho.

Replacing natural lands with solar farms is one of the stupidest things I've seen. They're doing that on some state parks near me.

>Replacing natural lands with solar farms is one of the stupidest things I've seen

"Says here[1] on this study published by university lab funded by a consortium of the same interests that develop the solar that this is fine"

-smarmy HN linkposters

[1]

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#102

Post by pembrook »

measurablefunc wrote: post #87
orangedog wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happened in 2021 and we haven't had similar issues since. I haven't experienced a power grid failure since then.

According to Google, Texas currently has about 87GW of peak capacity & a data center production pipeline that will require 75-100GW. So the state will have to basically double its peak capacity to supply power to all those new data centers.

And they will, because Texas allows building.

Question, how do you think the entire infrastructure around you that you’ve taken for granted your whole life was built?

If you were asked, would you have voted to allow the building of your own home, the infrastructure and roads around it, and the businesses whose tax revenue funds your local municipality you suddenly are so concerned about?

One of the most bizarre contradictions of this current moment is the simultaneous anger at things being expensive and also anger towards building anything. Even on this supposedly 'intellectually-minded' forum the extreme irony flies over the heads of most.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#103

Post by xyst »

htrp wrote: post #35

This just means that DC builds will move to other states. It isn't exactly like you need low latency/colocation for AI workloads.

Probably but now planning of these datacenters will now include power redundancy and a shit ton of backup power. Some commenters here think "just move dc to texas." Sounds like a good idea until you realize grid is nearly entirely separate from federal grid. State manages it and completely ignores any attempts to weatherize it.

2021 was an absolute disaster. There was a moment where the grid could have completely collapsed. But by some luck, the state avoided that.

Can they do that next time? Shall wait and see.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#104

Post by dopa42365 »

piltdownman wrote: post #52
ecshafer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

many of the data centers are being built with natural gas generators on site, and they are using excess gas from the oil drilling.

Texas is the only state in the lower 48 that has no major connections to neighboring power grids. That means growing energy demand in Texas must be met by new power generation in Texas. Texas has not improved energy efficiency standards since the 2021 blackout, and have resisted all attempts at increasing the governance of the gas generation. The Electric Reliability Council of Texas' "Capacity, Demand and Reserves r…

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-TEX-ERCO/live/fi...

Despite all the yapping, there's a crap ton of (ever growing) solar and wind and battery storage and what not in Texas. And ERCOT does have a power link with the neighboring SPP.

https://www.spp.org/documents/71831/ercot-spp%20coordination...

No one wants the grid to collapse after all (except you I guess, for whatever reason).

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#105

Post by miyoji »

MC995 wrote: post #84
georgemcbay wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have trouble understanding why Sanders has decided to be vocal about these Perhaps the majority of people in Vermont want him to be vocal about it and he is simply doing his actual job. AI is wildly unpopular outside of our little tech bubble.

> AI is wildly unpopular outside of our little tech bubble. That goes against my personal experience. It's only people in this small tech bubble that hate it. In the broader space people love it. I know plenty of people 50+ who use it as their search engine now, people who use it for relationship advice, my wife works with someone who claims to be dating an AI boyfriend (don't ask me how that works). And that's to sa…

> That goes against my personal experience.

Anecdotal experience doesn't matter. Mine contradicts yours, but my anecdotal experience also isn't strong evidence.

There are countless polls showing that the American public's sentiment towards AI is both negative and falling.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#106

Post by verdverm »

weberer wrote: post #93
prpl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

Completely serious. Sea water cooling for data centers is already in use here in Helsinki. And water temperature in the Gulf of America doesn't seem to go above 30 C even in the summer. https://news.ftcpublications.com/core/coastal-cities-test-se... https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/phod/regsatprod/gom/sst_map.php

Sea water would have to be piped to places like Dallas, whereas much of Finland's people/data centers are closer to the shoreline. A solution that works in certain places does not generally work everywhere.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#107

Post by evantbyrne »

Some guy floated the idea of putting in a small datacenter in the nearby city and asked for public comment. The next town hall had a huge turnout and multiple people got kicked out for rushing the podium. Meanwhile, people are also protesting and suing to try and stop the nearby solar farm construction. What I'm wondering is why can't we have this level of enthusiasm for actual environmental reform and the transition to clean energy? It almost feels like it is just an anti-progress movement in different clothes.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#108

Post by miyoji »

orangedog wrote: post #44
tayo42 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your closer to a 2/3 and 1/3 split then a coin flip with 60%. You handwaved that 40% to a positive. This could easily mean very few people have a positive view of AI.

The only point I was making is that 40% is a huge number.

60% is a 50% bigger number than 40%, so I don't understand your point at all.

Generally, in American winner-take-all politics, 60% is considered a massive landslide.

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#109

Post by verdverm »

bb86754 wrote: post #78
int32_64 wrote: post #57

I have a family member that wants to ban all data centers and I felt like Daniel Plainview in the milkshake scene showing them the AWS region selector interface, explaining that regional data center bans in deep leftist areas won't move the needle. Nothing short of a totalitarian one world government can stop the development of AI technology, there's simply too much demand. It's just not happening. These people shoul…

"totalitarian" for a democratically elected representative government to ban something? How? If other counties or states want them fine, godspeed, take them. We'll be just fine without them. - Lifetime resident of what might as well be called AWS us-east-1, Virginia now.

> "totalitarian" for a democratically elected representative government to ban something?

Steven Miller has figured it out

Re: New York becomes the first state to impose a data center moratorium

#110

Post by dfansteel »

khurs wrote: post #31

>The state currently has more than 130 data centers, according to Data Center Map, compared with more than 600 in Virginia and about 500 in Texas. Texas is physically larger and 'business frienedly' so suspect they will be getting a lot more. Taylor Sheridan can do a new series where a Ranch owned by a family for many generations is targeted by a Datacentre company.

> Taylor Sheridan can do a new series where a Ranch owned by a family for many generations is targeted by a Datacentre company.

It’s all fun and games until the cost of beef and oil skyrockets.

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