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Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

lenergy.com.au

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Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#171

Post by AnthonyMouse »

embedding-shape wrote: post #167
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The choice isn't "Keep the money or have subsidies", the choice is "The money goes to other stuff or get subsidies". That's the false dichotomy that happens in a broken government, but then why hold that out as something desirable? > Are those interest-free or managed by for-profit entities? Is the larger amount of mortgage or car loan debt they have to carry when they pay the extra money in tax? > Because "not tak…

> That's the false dichotomy that happens in a broken government, but then why hold that out as something desirable? Personally I see it as stuff that happens in countries where the government care about the well-being of all , not just a select few (usually the ones with the most money). It's desirable that society improves, lots of that happens because of tax money. Subsidies usually means re-allocating funds, not…

I'm honestly having trouble comprehending what your position is supposed to be here. It really seems to be that using the money to lower taxes on ordinary people rather than providing them with subsidies is a thing that could never happen. As if the prospect that their taxes could be lower than they are now, rather than only the same or higher, is something you can't even imagine.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#172

Post by CalRobert »

grey-area wrote: post #155
CalRobert wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re using rooftop solar then presumably the net heat generated by your aircon is the same as the amount your roof is no longer absorbing. Otherwise you just described a perpetual motion machine?

I imagine that absorption by the roof or panels is around the same - however the aircon moves heat from inside to outside, so you are moving heat outside for other people to deal with. In an isolated house it makes little difference. If every building has aircon in a city it does impact outside temperatures and adds to the heat island effect.

Right, but energy that would have heated the roof goes towards powering the aircon (which likely is on the roof itself), which then emits the same amount of heat, no?

Say a roof is absorbing 10000 watts. You install solar panels that absorb 2000 watts, used to power an airco. You now have your roof absorbing 8000 watts (released as heat) and ann airco absorbing (using) 2000 watts (also released as heat). Am I wrong? Seems like a conservation of energy problem. And you get a cooler roof so less airco demand too!

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#173

Post by jazoom »

brabel wrote: post #135
ghiculescu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 year ROI is what I got quoted on a solar setup. I live in Queensland. It’s very sunny here.

Wow your current electricity must be really expensive... or your solar setup is?? Also the calculation was done by the company selling it, I'm pretty sure that was far too optimistic.

That actually sounds pessimistic to me. My ROI for 18kW solar plus 42kWh battery will be under 3 years.

- Expensive electricity

- Government subsidy for solar and battery

- Much sunshine

- 3 hours free charging daily

Nearly $5000 yearly bill gone. $14000 installation cost post rebate.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#174

Post by xbmcuser »

thedays wrote: post #138
xbmcuser wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is why a lot of people were thinking that the Australian opposition asking for spending $40-50 billions for nuclear that would come online in 20-30 years and to keep using coal and gas till then were being stupid.

It wasn’t $40-50 billion. It was estimated to cost $116-$600 billion to build 7 nuclear reactors https://smartenergy.org.au/nuclear-fallout-116-600-billion-t... I think the likely cost would have been hundreds of billions considering Australia does not have a nuclear energy generation industry. It currently has a very small nuclear workforce as it only has a small nuclear medical reactor on the outskirts of Sydney.

I am talking about the $30 billion that the opposition was making up. My point was that even those made up numbers for nuclear were still more expensive than installing solar and batteries.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#175

Post by [deleted] »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #106
embedding-shape wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it so out of the ordinary that a government tries to help people save money or what's the question? Sounds like you've only had the American experience in life unfortunately.

If something actually saves money then it doesn't require a subsidy because people would be doing it regardless. Meanwhile the government doesn't have any of its own money, so it can't really give you something that was yours to begin with, all it can do is take it from you and then give it back with strings attached. How is that helping you? Instead of subsidizing something you can make up your own mind about whethe…

[deleted]

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#176

Post by CalRobert »

CalRobert wrote: post #172
grey-area wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that absorption by the roof or panels is around the same - however the aircon moves heat from inside to outside, so you are moving heat outside for other people to deal with. In an isolated house it makes little difference. If every building has aircon in a city it does impact outside temperatures and adds to the heat island effect.

Right, but energy that would have heated the roof goes towards powering the aircon (which likely is on the roof itself), which then emits the same amount of heat, no? Say a roof is absorbing 10000 watts. You install solar panels that absorb 2000 watts, used to power an airco. You now have your roof absorbing 8000 watts (released as heat) and ann airco absorbing (using) 2000 watts (also released as heat). Am I wrong?…

Ah, unless you refer to shifting the release of heat from inside to outside earlier in the day?

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#177

Post by inkyoto »

jiggawatts wrote: post #170
inkyoto wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, apartment dwelling residential customers connected to embedded networks (many new apartment blocks in NSW, Victoria and Queensland) are not eligible for the Solar Share Offer because under section 6(3)(c), a consumer supplied through an embedded network is already excluded from the Commonwealth Electricity Retail Code’s definition of a «small customer». The government won't address this particular perverse…

I love being ripped off because I'm renting, so instead of having a direct relationship with my service providers, they are legally allowed to sign binding contracts with the building manager who I'm sure in no shape way or form receives a kick-back. So I'm stuck with an energy provider that is too incompetent to figure out how to bill me correctly, but puts a markup on what I'd pay as a home owner, and I don't even…

> […] they are legally allowed to sign binding contracts with the building manager […]

The embedded networks collude with the builders and offer them the installation of wiring, air-conditioning, gas, hot water, and sometimes the internet – usually for free – and that happens before the strata comes into the picture. The strata is left with no choice but to inherit a fixed-term contract (typically 3-5 years), after which it can switch to… another embedded network.

The builders accept offers from embedded networks because it reduces their overall costs.

The NSW government has enacted the first tranche of regulations for embedded networks from the 1st of July this year, with the embedded networks price caps being introduced in early 2027 (that is the promise, anyway). If you live in NSW, IPART is the government body in charge of the regulation, and it is accepting submissions until the end of this month. Prepare and make your own submission whilst you can, as I have done.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#178

Post by EliRivers »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #106
embedding-shape wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it so out of the ordinary that a government tries to help people save money or what's the question? Sounds like you've only had the American experience in life unfortunately.

If something actually saves money then it doesn't require a subsidy because people would be doing it regardless. Meanwhile the government doesn't have any of its own money, so it can't really give you something that was yours to begin with, all it can do is take it from you and then give it back with strings attached. How is that helping you? Instead of subsidizing something you can make up your own mind about whethe…

"If something actually saves money then it doesn't require a subsidy because people would be doing it regardless."

Yet people frequently don't. This assertion and reality disagree.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#179

Post by entrope »

ra wrote: post #118
SockThief wrote: post #103

I feel like this is still relevant today: Clarke and Dawe - The Energy Market Explained https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaBzj7cn14

Still describes the current state of affairs perfectly. I'd love to see them on snowy 2 today.

> I'd love to see them on snowy 2 today.

I can only imagine the comment warnings on that segment considering that, sadly, John Clarke passed away nine years ago.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#180

Post by tialaramex »

jiggawatts wrote: post #170
inkyoto wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, apartment dwelling residential customers connected to embedded networks (many new apartment blocks in NSW, Victoria and Queensland) are not eligible for the Solar Share Offer because under section 6(3)(c), a consumer supplied through an embedded network is already excluded from the Commonwealth Electricity Retail Code’s definition of a «small customer». The government won't address this particular perverse…

I love being ripped off because I'm renting, so instead of having a direct relationship with my service providers, they are legally allowed to sign binding contracts with the building manager who I'm sure in no shape way or form receives a kick-back. So I'm stuck with an energy provider that is too incompetent to figure out how to bill me correctly, but puts a markup on what I'd pay as a home owner, and I don't even…

These are things where policy is set by government and so could be moved by your elected representatives. If you already have a preferred flavour of representative, try to get them to want to do this. If you don't, here's an issue that could make you prefer one over another, make sure they know that.
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