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Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

lenergy.com.au

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Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#161

Post by Havoc »

defrost wrote: post #92
Havoc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised they’re putting everyone on same timeslot. Would have expected some staggering to be helpful

From elsewhere: this applies to NSW, South Australia and part of Queensland. so NSW and South Australia will be staggered in real time as they are in different time zones. As for everybody in the same time zone .. they are all seeing the same sun angle at noon (more or less) and all sharing the same over supply of power from all the grid connected solar power rooftops and farms. It's free surplus power during that ti…

Yeah i get that they're all seeing similar but you'd still want to align this new demand with the output curve in some form of approximated pattern. Plus also prevent the sharp spike you'd get from everyone turning on their stuff at a coordinated hour. You're gonna have a bunch of stuff on timers all hit this at the same time. That makes life hard for the people balancing the grid's supply & demand.

Bit like in the UK they had issues with everyone watching popular TV shows and then turning on the kettle after in a perfectly syncronized timing across the country

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#162

Post by grey-area »

yurishimo wrote: post #108
grey-area wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should still feel some guilt for the heat pollution your air conditioning causes for those outside your house, esp. in an urban area.

Or, we could lobby politicians to actually improve the lives of their constituents by making climate control appliances so affordable and ubiquitous that it's no longer an issue and we can stop accidental deaths attributed to heat. More green spaces can also help mitigate the impact. The reality is that a lot of old western europe was built for a climate that no longer exists. Houses are built to prioritize holding o…

Schemes like the Paris central cooling one are interesting here - there are other possible solutions in cities too.

And sure yes combined with other measures AC can be a net good.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#163

Post by canpan »

chicken-stew wrote: post #137
thedays wrote: post #131

This article is misleading as it implies that Australian energy retailers must provide every household with 3 hours of free electricity. This is not the case. From 1 July 2026, Australian energy retailers with more than 1,000 customers must offer at least one energy plan which includes 3 hours of free electricity, capped at 24kWh per day, to residential customers in 3 states - NSW, SE Queensland and South Australia.…

Wait, capped at 24 kWh a day? Our household consumed 8 kWh per day over the past week (gas cooking, no airco). So with a home battery that sinks 10 kWh during those 3 hours you have minimal energy costs?

Just for reference our fully electric household (including cooking, water and aircon). Highest usage this month on a very hot day was 25kWh. (Disclaimer: I am not in Australia. Already cover most of it with roof solar. No battery yet)

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#164

Post by aianus »

vitro wrote: post #104
ghiculescu wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are super economical… which is why there’s a subsidy required for people to buy them?

I know people who would purchase solar panels and batteries, but they do not have enough capital to do so.

In Australia? The houses are like 30x-100x more expensive than a battery, how would this be possible?

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#165

Post by mothballed »

yorwba wrote: post #145
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spoken as someone who never been poor. There is definitely a ton of stuff people with money can do to save more money, that is completely out of reach for the people who would actually benefit from those savings the most. Subsidies is quite literally about reaching these folks that others tend to forget about. Except that there is no additional money, its just your own money but now there are strings. On top of tha…

> that's what loans are for Upthread: "interest free loan of 15k" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48904009

... for purchases from "approved" "accredited" suppliers[]. AKA the interest differential is regressive tax to funnel money to favored suppliers. Notice there's no option for the poor to simply install it themselves, which would save them more money than an interest free loan, but wouldn't funnel money to rich government approved install contractors.

And there's your grift. As soon as the home owner wants to allocate the "profit" of install to themselves, it is a swift kick in the ass but that will go to our buddies, and thank you very much for your taxes.

[] https://www.energy.nsw.gov.au/households/grants-rebates/home...

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#166

Post by consumer451 »

I am curious what interesting opportunities free power for a short time opens up.

I know crypto mining in TX can operate like this, but that's boring.

Desalination and carbon capture are both energy restricted, that sounds a lot more interesting. However, the deployed equipment has to be cheap if you only have 3hrs per day of free power, right?

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#167

Post by embedding-shape »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #151
embedding-shape wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except that there is no additional money, its just your own money but now there are strings. I understand what you mean, and yeah, "it's just your money", but also, it really isn't. Poor people have to pay taxes, no way around it, getting them back as subsidies is still better for them than not getting it back at all. The choice isn't "Keep the money or have subsidies", the choice is "The money goes to other stuff…

> The choice isn't "Keep the money or have subsidies", the choice is "The money goes to other stuff or get subsidies". That's the false dichotomy that happens in a broken government, but then why hold that out as something desirable? > Are those interest-free or managed by for-profit entities? Is the larger amount of mortgage or car loan debt they have to carry when they pay the extra money in tax? > Because "not tak…

> That's the false dichotomy that happens in a broken government, but then why hold that out as something desirable?

Personally I see it as stuff that happens in countries where the government care about the well-being of all, not just a select few (usually the ones with the most money). It's desirable that society improves, lots of that happens because of tax money. Subsidies usually means re-allocating funds, not raising taxes, although that might happen over time. Still, increasing taxes isn't inherently bad, especially when used for good. But I also know this is a somewhat controversial point of view in many hyper-capitalistic societies.

> Your argument seems to be that lowering taxes on ordinary people is impossible?

Yeah sure, I'm also clearly arguing for murdering children. Fun discussion, hope you'll enjoy the rest of your Tuesday :)

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#168

Post by AnthonyMouse »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #152
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something actually saves money then it doesn't require a subsidy because people would be doing it regardless. Meanwhile the government doesn't have any of its own money, so it can't really give you something that was yours to begin with, all it can do is take it from you and then give it back with strings attached. How is that helping you? Instead of subsidizing something you can make up your own mind about whethe…

Think of it as a giant corporate tax break, but for the little people.

> Think of it as a giant corporate tax break

So the thing everyone correctly maligns because it's generally some form of corruption or inefficiency?

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#169

Post by grey-area »

CalRobert wrote: post #51
grey-area wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should still feel some guilt for the heat pollution your air conditioning causes for those outside your house, esp. in an urban area.

This is heat that would have escaped the house anyway

No, air conditioning units generate heat (that is how they cool!) and do contribute to local warming. Without AC the house reaches equilibrium with outside. With AC the house is cooled and that heat has to go somewhere.

Re: Australian energy retailers must offer three hours of free daytime electricity

#170

Post by jiggawatts »

inkyoto wrote: post #144
thedays wrote: post #131

This article is misleading as it implies that Australian energy retailers must provide every household with 3 hours of free electricity. This is not the case. From 1 July 2026, Australian energy retailers with more than 1,000 customers must offer at least one energy plan which includes 3 hours of free electricity, capped at 24kWh per day, to residential customers in 3 states - NSW, SE Queensland and South Australia.…

Moreover, apartment dwelling residential customers connected to embedded networks (many new apartment blocks in NSW, Victoria and Queensland) are not eligible for the Solar Share Offer because under section 6(3)(c), a consumer supplied through an embedded network is already excluded from the Commonwealth Electricity Retail Code’s definition of a «small customer». The government won't address this particular perverse…

I love being ripped off because I'm renting, so instead of having a direct relationship with my service providers, they are legally allowed to sign binding contracts with the building manager who I'm sure in no shape way or form receives a kick-back.

So I'm stuck with an energy provider that is too incompetent to figure out how to bill me correctly, but puts a markup on what I'd pay as a home owner, and I don't even get the NBN despite having fibre to the premises!

No IPv6, no gigabit Internet, no free solar electricity.

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