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AI is a bad tool

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Re: AI is a bad tool

#91

Post by gatio »

hoppp wrote: post #42
datakan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not enjoy coding? I'm not trying to be snarky, just a genuine question. People used to enjoy it but lately all I see are people talking about they "no longer have to do it" I see both sides of the argument people endless have over this. I have been hesitant to take a solid position, first because I suck at coding and second because I dont really have a dog in this fight. The only context I have is my friend in…

I have a wrist pain from typing a lot. I prefer to generate and then audit. Just make changes one file at a time and then review and commit. So I go from typing to prompting and reviewing diffs. There is no way I install an agent on my laptop so I stick to web UI

You probably install all sorts of unverified crap on your laptop already, and since you are aware of this risk, you are in a good position to mitigate it. Sandboxes are a thing.

Re: AI is a bad tool

#92

Post by IshKebab »

m_w_ wrote: post #2

I can only imagine that people who say things like: > If you use AI for anything else, and in particularly if you use it to generate code, you're wasting your time. Have not used frontier models in at least a year. It is nearly inconceivable to me that I would ever go back to writing code by hand, in any context. Even if no new model was ever released, the combination of GLM 5.2 and DeepSeek V4 flash is more than suf…

He's obviously wrong for saying "If you use AI to generate code you're wasting your time" - that's empirically wrong. As you say, anyone who has used recent models knows you can absolutely save time with them (hell even the earlier ones were useful for one-off scripts). But...

> It is nearly inconceivable to me that I would ever go back to writing code by hand, in any context.

In any context? Sorry but they aren't that good yet. There are definitely areas where they are going to struggle. Maybe fewer than before. Maybe you can say "in any context where a junior-to-mid programmer would be ok", which I would agree with.

Re: AI is a bad tool

#93

Post by xigoi »

skwirl wrote: post #58

> The real question is, who can verify that what the AI built is good and true? Recently, there's a lot of talk about AI allegedly finding security flaws in software. That is an unsubstantiated claim. As such, it would need to be verified by a non-machine, and arguably, the verification process would require the same amount of effort or more than would be required to find the issue to begin with. Came for the bad AI…

Are you arguing that writing a correct program is an NP problem?

Re: AI is a bad tool

#94

Post by hoppp »

gatio wrote: post #91
hoppp wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a wrist pain from typing a lot. I prefer to generate and then audit. Just make changes one file at a time and then review and commit. So I go from typing to prompting and reviewing diffs. There is no way I install an agent on my laptop so I stick to web UI

You probably install all sorts of unverified crap on your laptop already, and since you are aware of this risk, you are in a good position to mitigate it. Sandboxes are a thing.

Nah, finally I got a clean fedora install with barely anything. No crap for now!

Just because everyone is profitmaxxing anthropic by running all the agents, I don't have to.

Re: AI is a bad tool

#95

Post by QuantumGood »

datakan wrote: post #16
m_w_ wrote: post #2

I can only imagine that people who say things like: > If you use AI for anything else, and in particularly if you use it to generate code, you're wasting your time. Have not used frontier models in at least a year. It is nearly inconceivable to me that I would ever go back to writing code by hand, in any context. Even if no new model was ever released, the combination of GLM 5.2 and DeepSeek V4 flash is more than suf…

Do you not enjoy coding? I'm not trying to be snarky, just a genuine question. People used to enjoy it but lately all I see are people talking about they "no longer have to do it" I see both sides of the argument people endless have over this. I have been hesitant to take a solid position, first because I suck at coding and second because I dont really have a dog in this fight. The only context I have is my friend in…

You can frame setting up AI such that some of that activity is similar to some coding activities you like, or that some of that activity releases you from some of the coding activities you don't like.

It's a really personal thing; some of what you like can be getting some kinds of results quickly, for example. The answer to "What is it like to code?" or "What do you like about coding?" cannot be overly generalized or reductionist since it depends as much on personal preferences as it does classifying activities.

Re: AI is a bad tool

#96

Post by CrimsonRain »

mrob wrote: post #81
CrimsonRain wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your argument is that it's the same argument machine coders used against high level languages :)

High level languages are analogous to airbrushes or paint rollers, not assistants. They let you paint faster, at the cost of making some things impossible that you would be able to do with a fine paintbrush. Unlike the assistant/LLM, they do not make artistic decisions for you, and their behavior is predictable.

That's your interpretation after being used to high level languages. The assembly purists were not happy back in the days and made the same/similar arguments.

Re: AI is a bad tool

#97

Post by n4r9 »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #54
n4r9 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the joy of coding comes simply from writing lots of code. It's the act of precisely expressing one's internal thoughts into an physical medium, and watching it take effect. Using AI as an intermediary makes it less enjoyable. It's like a painter telling his speedy assistant what he wants to paint, and reviewing every attempt until it looks like what he was aiming for. Obviously the painter won't find th…

The problem with your argument is that it's the same argument machine coders used against high level languages :)

Yes and no. I think it's perfectly legitimate for someone to enjoy coding in assembly but not Python. And if someone comes over and talks about how much faster they can build things in C, it's fair enough for them to question whether that person had enjoyed writing assembly in the first place.

Aside: there's a clip on YouTube of Linus responding to someone asking if he'd consider using other languages for Linux. His response is that he likes to be close to the metal, and he likes C because you can look at C code and know well enough what the compiled assembly code will look like. You can't really say that with LLMs. You can understand C and you can understand the prompt for building a program in C which will achieve xyz. But you can't actually know what the output of the prompt will look like.

Re: AI is a bad tool

#98

Post by bluefirebrand »

bensyverson wrote: post #76
bluefirebrand wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI is simply a power tool I could not disagree more strongly Using a power tool does not erode your ability to think about how to build a shelf. Using AI to write for you absolutely erodes your ability to think about what you're writing, be it software or blog posts

People have said this about virtually every new writing technology, from pencils to typewriters, from computers to spell-check. Personally I would never use AI for writing, but it's absolutely a power tool for coding. I still need to think about what needs to be generated, and why. For now, I still need to guide the model based on my experience. And in the end, I'm on the hook to approve what's created. If anything,…

> People have said this about virtually every new writing technology, from pencils to typewriters, from computers to spell-check.

Do you think it is a coincidence that literacy rates among the younger generations are lower than previous generations right now?

Imagine making the same argument for text to speech. "You don't need to learn how to read or write because you'll always have a voice activated AI assistant to read stuff for you"

Maybe that doesn't bother you. I think it would represent a horrifying backslide of society into ignorance

Re: AI is a bad tool

#99

Post by deterministic »

I 100% disagree.

I'm the maintainer of a large, business-critical C++ application with over a million lines of code that's used by major international companies. Claude Code routinely handles large and complex code changes correctly.

I review every line that Claude Code adds or changes, so this isn't speculation. It's an empirical fact.

These days my job is mostly to direct Claude Code, review its changes, and test the results. I still write code by hand when it's faster than explaining what I want, but that's becoming less common.

Re: AI is a bad tool

#100

Post by deterministic »

datakan wrote: post #16
m_w_ wrote: post #2

I can only imagine that people who say things like: > If you use AI for anything else, and in particularly if you use it to generate code, you're wasting your time. Have not used frontier models in at least a year. It is nearly inconceivable to me that I would ever go back to writing code by hand, in any context. Even if no new model was ever released, the combination of GLM 5.2 and DeepSeek V4 flash is more than suf…

Do you not enjoy coding? I'm not trying to be snarky, just a genuine question. People used to enjoy it but lately all I see are people talking about they "no longer have to do it" I see both sides of the argument people endless have over this. I have been hesitant to take a solid position, first because I suck at coding and second because I dont really have a dog in this fight. The only context I have is my friend in…

I code the parts that are new and interesting. However after 30+ years of programming most code is something I have done before so I love getting Claude Code to do it :)
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