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Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

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Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#211

Post by cherry_tree »

rayiner wrote: post #209
TimorousBestie wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should they cook our food too? Unironically, also GP: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46559004 > > The bad food is a plus. The most orderly civilizations generally have the blandest food. Almost all societies with good food are chaotic and disorderly. So yes, the state should probably take over cooking to maintain order!

The food doesn't cause the mindset; not caring about food is a consequence of the mindset.

Hopefully one day society can lift itself to your lofty ideals of tasteless food, oppressive surveillance and no crimes against the state. I wonder if anyone has written about such a world before.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#212

Post by akimbostrawman »

nozzlegear wrote: post #196
akimbostrawman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the reality of using patterns and data points such as statistics to determine likelihood of danger? Like you and me do every day even if you don't notice? Would the same have happened if they where two women which are statistically less likely to be a danger than men?

The police doing racial profiling is never a good thing, it destroys community trust for one.

What destroys trust is breaking it e.g. a specific group of people committing unproportional amount of crime per capita.

What about profiling based on sex or age? Should there be a perfect equal amount of times a 8 year old girl or a 80 year old man be question by the police just so you can feel good about yourself?

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#213

Post by akimbostrawman »

ceejayoz wrote: post #148
akimbostrawman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the reality of using patterns and data points such as statistics to determine likelihood of danger? Like you and me do every day even if you don't notice? Would the same have happened if they where two women which are statistically less likely to be a danger than men?

Somehow, when it's dark, black and white motorists commit similar levels of traffic offenses, but when it's light out, there's a disparity. https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2020/05/veil-darkness-redu... That's a pattern/data point/statistic, for sure, but I'd happily assert it supports my point effectively.

>motorists

Nice niche cherry pick too bad there isn't even a mention of "same amount of crime" if you just look at average crime rates by race, logic would tell you why that might be the case, in the same way men are WAY more likely to be pulled over than women.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#214

Post by rsynnott »

rayiner wrote: post #113
ceejayoz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We're bringing the paranoid old biddy HOA worldview to everyone, non-consensually!" is your upside ?

[flagged]

Or a claustrophobic nightmare. All depends on perspective.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#215

Post by rsynnott »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #138
cherry_tree wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The state should replace community” is an interesting take. What other powers should be added to the state? Should they cook our food too? Do you think there’s any downside to the government having these powers?

> Should they cook our food too? Unironically, also GP: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46559004 > > The bad food is a plus. The most orderly civilizations generally have the blandest food. Almost all societies with good food are chaotic and disorderly. So yes, the state should probably take over cooking to maintain order!

... Right, so explain Singapore.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#216

Post by Neil44 »

nozzlegear wrote: post #191
ieatcandlewax wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, the police have a weird habit of determining that black people drive the most suspicious cars. Does this racial profiling extend to their drone use as well? It's clear from the article that the police are using the drones in more situations than just the active investigations that they claim to use them in. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black ) What about we keep the drones to reduce crime an…

> If they ask YOU what crime YOU'RE committing you don't have to answer. Why would they have to answer you or even admit to following you? Why should the police be accountable, indeed? That's honestly my whole point, my whole issue with police having drones. They're not accountable, and when they get caught, they lie or ignore. They have power over you and I, they're in a special position, and for that reason we shou…

In terms of photography there's no expectation of privacy in a public place. Maybe in some countries that's different but that's how it is here. If you take a picture in public you don't need the consent of everyone in the background. So the police aren't doing anything that joe bloggs couldn't do. Personally, I feel the police keep me safe. 99 times out of 100 when there's some kind of shitty headline about police there turns out to be a lot of missing information from the story. I've been pulled over plenty when I was younger and had other interactions and have always been dealt with reasonably. My only complaint about the police is that there isn't more of them. So I guess we're going to disagree on this issue.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#217

Post by malfist »

Neil44 wrote: post #216
nozzlegear wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they ask YOU what crime YOU'RE committing you don't have to answer. Why would they have to answer you or even admit to following you? Why should the police be accountable, indeed? That's honestly my whole point, my whole issue with police having drones. They're not accountable, and when they get caught, they lie or ignore. They have power over you and I, they're in a special position, and for that reason we shou…

In terms of photography there's no expectation of privacy in a public place. Maybe in some countries that's different but that's how it is here. If you take a picture in public you don't need the consent of everyone in the background. So the police aren't doing anything that joe bloggs couldn't do. Personally, I feel the police keep me safe. 99 times out of 100 when there's some kind of shitty headline about police t…

How are you defining public? When a drone flies over my backyard and records me naked in my hot tub, is that public now?

Mind you that scenario is explicitly forbidden by law, the drones are only supposed to record at the scene but the police are illegally recording for the entire flight.

Should the police be allowed to break the law when they feel like it? Or should they be held to the same (or higher) standard as the general population because of the extra authority we give them

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#218

Post by pluralmonad »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #36
pluralmonad wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will always be those who make excuses for the panopticon. Is yours that reducing auto theft is worth the tradeoffs?

AFAIK there is no right to privacy in public, no? What I don't care so much about the data collection as I do about how it's used. Its not that the NSA surveils that bugs me. It's that they use kangaroo courts, "asdfasdfasdf" as the search reason field, that they cyber stalk girlfriends, or view camera devices to see people in state of undress (illegally and unethically). In this case we have an example of police usi…

Not being invisible in public is different than being continually monitored, analyzed, and cataloged. The "no expectation of privacy in public" argument seems in bad faith to me since it ignores this vast difference.

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#219

Post by malfist »

ieatcandlewax wrote: post #188
nozzlegear wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few things IMO: First, the police have a weird habit of determining that black people drive the most suspicious cars. Does this racial profiling extend to their drone use as well? It's clear from the article that the police are using the drones in more situations than just the active investigations that they claim to use them in. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black ) Second, if you're being followed…

> First, the police have a weird habit of determining that black people drive the most suspicious cars. Does this racial profiling extend to their drone use as well? It's clear from the article that the police are using the drones in more situations than just the active investigations that they claim to use them in. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black ) What about we keep the drones to reduce crime an…

Please explain how drones reduce crime?

Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance

#220

Post by nozzlegear »

akimbostrawman wrote: post #212
nozzlegear wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police doing racial profiling is never a good thing, it destroys community trust for one.

What destroys trust is breaking it e.g. a specific group of people committing unproportional amount of crime per capita. What about profiling based on sex or age? Should there be a perfect equal amount of times a 8 year old girl or a 80 year old man be question by the police just so you can feel good about yourself?

Don't waste my time with your sophistry. We both know what you actually want to say, so stop pussyfooting around like you don't already have your bullshit 13% statistic memorized by rote and just come out and say it.
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