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Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

tech.supercarblondie.com

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Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#71

Post by protocolture »

chubs wrote: post #29
tyre wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion/experience, why is it that they aren't switching?

I have a theory: Japanese car's have excellent reliability, their interiors and design are lacking. If every car in the world is an EV, which due to their relative simplicity tend to be reliable, what remaining unique selling points does eg a toyota have?

I dunno I quite like hondas interiors.

Toyota seem to be spartan intentionally.

GWM has them both outflanked they just push comfortable interior as its easier than catching up on any of the other engineering.

Teslas just feel like Jony Ive reinvented the car interior from an artistic design perspective with zero reference to the comfort of the passenger.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#72

Post by protocolture »

yanhangyhy wrote: post #19
chvid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is curious - you would think they would love it? But they don't - is it simply the case of the Chinese beating them - stubbornness and pride? Or is there something more going on? Toyota was seemingly decades ahead at one point with their hybrid cars; but now they have resigned to a defensive position compared to Tesla, Chinese automakers, even the European ones.

> you would think they would love it? no. i just found it funny. > Or is there something more going on? I remember BYD actually had to design models specifically tailored to the Japanese market (k-car)—their preferences are honestly so bizarre. I think a lot of this comes down to their national character. Once external momentum fades—like the industrial transfers from the US—they seem to lose the drive for technologi…

>They just cling to whatever they already have and refuse to adapt to global shifts.People in Japan are still using Yahoo and fax machines（not to mention their own bizarrely proprietary text editors,Hidemaru/SAKURA editor, to compare, in china, it's also vscode）.

James May suggests in his doco "The Peoples Car" that the US auto market was like this when Japan was recovering from WW2, giving them the edge. It wouldnt surprise me if after a few years of success that they also stagnate.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#73

Post by feverzsj »

est wrote: post #59
feverzsj wrote: post #43

What about the cost? In China, most used batteries are just burned and buried, so the recycling cost is very low.

whataboutism and fake news https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-61481-y https://interestingengineering.com/energy/china-recovery-mat...

According to the latest report from a state owned media, 75% of used batteries end up in underground workshops.

[0]: https://www.yicai.com/news/103030411.html

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#74

Post by dv_dt »

leonidasrup wrote: post #45
cyphar wrote: post #21

It really should not be surprising that we can get very high recovery percentages from batteries -- we do not mine elemental lithium, so the processes we use for extraction are already designed to extract lithium from fairly low-purity sources. In contrast, lithium batteries are an incredibly high-purity source of lithium. The main question is when it will become cost-effective to create recycling pipelines. Lead aci…

U.S. lead acid baterries recycling has been outsourced. " As the United States tightened regulations on lead processing to protect Americans over the past three decades, finding domestic lead became a challenge. So the auto industry looked overseas to supplement its supply. In doing so, car and battery manufacturers pushed the health consequences of lead recycling onto countries where enforcement is lax, testing is r…

Don't get on such a high horse about US regulatory effectiveness.

This is recently (2010) in California even: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exide_lead_contamination

Still, the overall benefit might be seen as positive for lithium from shifting widespread air pollution from combustion engines to more localized pollution. Though obviously the world needs to work on better processes for the local pollutants.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#75

Post by simondotau »

jeffbee wrote: post #44
rootusrootus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Japan's finest batteries Aren’t all Teslas made in the US supplied with American made batteries? In partnership with Panasonic, for the Model 3, but still a Tesla factory in Nevada. And I think 4680s are all Tesla made, correct?

No, they are all 100% made by Panasonic, with Panasonic technology, in buildings that Panasonic master-leases from Tesla. The only thing Tesla has contributed is the shell and the sign outside. Panasonic developed the 4680 form factor at Tesla's request, by the way that program has been a major failure.

Much of that is false or inaccurate.

“Master-leases” is a factually incorrect claim. Tesla owns the entire Nevada site and all of the buildings. Panasonic is a tenant of Tesla, leasing some sections of floor space to operate their 2170 cell production lines, manufactured to Tesla's specification. This arrangement was formed before Tesla had meaningful battery cell manufacturing expertise of its own.

In the same building cluster, Tesla does in-house battery module production, battery pack production, Powerwall manufacturing, Megapack manufacturing, electric motor manufacturing, drive units, and other powertrain components.

Panasonic was not involved in the design of Tesla's 4680 cell format. Along with this new form factor, Tesla gambled with various novel manufacturing processes, which resulted in many delays. Except for the delays, the Tesla 4680 production ramp has not been a “major failure”. It's producing a large volume of cells going into real customer cars, in the order of tens of millions per annum, and in that respect it has been successful. It is not yet clear whether the various manufacturing innovations (e.g. dry process) will be as transformative as hoped.

Separately to Tesla's efforts, and in response to Tesla's plans, Panasonic also developed its own manufacturing process to produce 4680 cells with the aim of being a supplier to Tesla.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#76

Post by adrianN »

somenameforme wrote: post #57
acksmack wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL 'The White House' isn't a sentient building

Would make for a nice sci-fi, and explain a lot. Not only is it sentient, it's telepathic and malicious!

I would read that SCP

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#77

Post by adrianN »

xbmcuser wrote: post #36
mc3301 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to follow it closely and be in the industry, but it still seems like Japan is gonna be the last "mostly ICE cars" of the developed countries. Which is a shame, because it has a perfect combination of short-range needs (I mean, look at kei-cars), tons of wonderful places to hang out while charging (toll-way rest areas are so good), rare sub-freezing temperatures in most of the country, mandatory vehicle inspect…

Why cars though I think people are still stuck with the cars mindset. But with electric we can get smaller ebikes/pods for individuals instead of cars

We could have smaller transportation with combustion engines too, but the margins are lower and they cover fewer use cases, so marketing larger vehicles works really well.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#79

Post by dtech »

dv_dt wrote: post #74
leonidasrup wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. lead acid baterries recycling has been outsourced. " As the United States tightened regulations on lead processing to protect Americans over the past three decades, finding domestic lead became a challenge. So the auto industry looked overseas to supplement its supply. In doing so, car and battery manufacturers pushed the health consequences of lead recycling onto countries where enforcement is lax, testing is r…

Don't get on such a high horse about US regulatory effectiveness. This is recently (2010) in California even: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exide_lead_contamination Still, the overall benefit might be seen as positive for lithium from shifting widespread air pollution from combustion engines to more localized pollution. Though obviously the world needs to work on better processes for the local pollutants.

The "advantage" is that in contrast to heavy metals like lead lithium is a lot less toxic as far as we know. Not 0, but not in the same league.

Re: Japan develops a method to recover up to 90% of lithium from used EV batteries

#80

Post by runtime_lens »

The technical challenge has never been recovering materials. It's recovering them cheaply enough that recycling beats mining. If this process scales economically, it could end up being more important than another small improvement in battery chemistry.
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