Live data from Hacker News

Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

19thnews.org

81–90 of 227 posts

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#81
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow. I would rather the government manage the API, like what NOAA does/did.

So then we are subsidizing Google’s outsized usage of that API?

Is this really an expensive problem to solve?

Give Google a continuous feed of the weather data which they cache locally. I can't imagine that being a particularly expensive thing to operate - no need to reply to an API call from Google every time someone searches for "weather".

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, and they often do collect accurate data. Philip Morris, for example, knew about the danger of smoking for decades, and Exxon knew all about the greenhouse effect. They didn’t publish that data, of course, and publicly argued to the contrary.

And governments don’t face bad incentives that would cause them to hide information?

Let's have the government collect the data and private companies can engage in that as well if they wish - both parties can call the other out if there's a discrepancy.

IMO the government's incentives are generally better aligned with truth telling but there are reasons[1] that independent studies may still catch the government out.

1. Famously, up here in Canada, Stephen Harper suppressed accurate dissemination of climate data during his administration that was only really discovered through independent analysis.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#83
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then we are subsidizing Google’s outsized usage of that API?

Is this really an expensive problem to solve? Give Google a continuous feed of the weather data which they cache locally. I can't imagine that being a particularly expensive thing to operate - no need to reply to an API call from Google every time someone searches for "weather".

That sounds like the arrangement you said we have. The government provides data to private companies who then mass distribute it in various forms because those costs and needs vary.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#84
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter example, the government manages and collects all kinds of weather station data. But the trend is for private companies to get contracts to privatize the dissemination of that data through fee-based APIs etc. I would rather the government provide it instead of taxpayers having to pay twice to enrich some rent seeker.

Operating an API isn’t free either and the needs and scale change dramatically for customer. So you would rather the public pay for Google to use weather data on a massive scale?

Google uses barely any weather data. Perhaps some tornado and wildfire tracking for its datacenters, but that's about it. The vast majority of its potential use comes from Android users, which is... the general public.

And it's not like Google is a charity, you're paying for it either way. The question is: do you want to pay for that weather API via your taxes, or do you want to pay for it via the advertising budget of the products you buy - with Google taking a decent chunk and selling your location data while they are at it?

And it's not like operating a weather API is that hard. You can easily find commercial parties who sell it for less than $1 per million API calls. Assuming you're polling for weather updates every 15 minutes 24/7, that's less than $0.03 of your yearly taxes going towards providing accurate weather information!

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private companies care way more about making money.

Making money requires accurate information about the world. For example I was just learning about how farmers hire scientists to grade chicken feed. They are incentived by their own profit to get good information about grain quality they wish to purchase.

This is probably an inopportune time to make that argument with Polymarket openly lying about their "truth telling machine" and paying influencers under the table to drive engagement.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#86
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really an expensive problem to solve? Give Google a continuous feed of the weather data which they cache locally. I can't imagine that being a particularly expensive thing to operate - no need to reply to an API call from Google every time someone searches for "weather".

That sounds like the arrangement you said we have. The government provides data to private companies who then mass distribute it in various forms because those costs and needs vary.

The problem is that those very same private companies are trying really hard to ban the government from providing the same data for free to the general public, because it would be "unfair competition".

They get it for free from the government. They offer it as a paid service to the general public. Then they try to ban the government from giving it away for free to any potential competition.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, and they often do collect accurate data. Philip Morris, for example, knew about the danger of smoking for decades, and Exxon knew all about the greenhouse effect. They didn’t publish that data, of course, and publicly argued to the contrary.

And governments don’t face bad incentives that would cause them to hide information?

They do. Often for different kinds of things. It’s not “government good, private bad” or the other way around. Both are facile views.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#88
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And governments don’t face bad incentives that would cause them to hide information?

Let's have the government collect the data and private companies can engage in that as well if they wish - both parties can call the other out if there's a discrepancy. IMO the government's incentives are generally better aligned with truth telling but there are reasons[1] that independent studies may still catch the government out. 1. Famously, up here in Canada, Stephen Harper suppressed accurate dissemination of c…

I would characterize it as the things the government would lie about are different than the things a company would lie about.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#89
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But at that point you’re just in an argument over which public services are most important to whom. Would be an interesting exercise to poll the public. We could probably break the country up into a bunch of districts, then have them vote to elect representatives to get together in some special location and negotiate how taxpayer dollars are spent. They could put something together like "a budget" and then that mon…

You are skipping a few layers here. Like those who know stuff like «crumbling asbestos air ducts in schools may be a bad idea». Why do so many grown-ups fail civics 101 so blatantly?

They are doing the gag where they just describe representative democracy like it is a novel idea.

Practically we also need expert organizations and agencies to help advise the representative and implement their ideas, but I wouldn’t describe glossing over that sort of detail as “failing civics 101.”

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#90
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making money requires accurate information about the world. For example I was just learning about how farmers hire scientists to grade chicken feed. They are incentived by their own profit to get good information about grain quality they wish to purchase.

This is probably an inopportune time to make that argument with Polymarket openly lying about their "truth telling machine" and paying influencers under the table to drive engagement.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN