Most lives are lived by default • Hacker News Board

Re: Most lives are lived by default

#131

Post by nicholas73 » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 6:02 PM UTC

bcasey wrote: post #124

nicholas73 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I directly disagree with this post and take a naturalist approach. People aren't unhappy because they want more; they are unhappy because their basic needs aren't met. And by needs I don't mean material needs, but basic self realization needs. We actually need very little to be happy, but people now live their lives in way they were not designed to be. As a primordial tribesmen, all people needed were the love and ca…

I agree with you completely. The simplicity required for a peaceful life is really difficult to find in today's world. Additionally, it's a common misconception that primordial man was a poor wretch that scrounged for food, fought larger predators and generally lived a life in constant fear and hunger. I once read an article on Mark's Daily Apple ( http://www.marksdailyapple.com/about-2/who-is-grok/#axzz2ENJ... ) tha…

I have the same reasoning as you. The number will be whatever amount that generates the income to support your desired lifestyle. This could be in investments or low involvement business income. Thus the number for me is 2.5 million based off of 4% dividend for a 100k income (about single engineer middle class Bay Area only because dividends are taxed lower). Or a number of side businesses that add up to that income.

Re: Most lives are lived by default

#132

Post by theorique » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 6:44 PM UTC

datashaman wrote: post #128

theorique wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The idea is to act as if the outcome of what you were working on was the most important thing in the world to you, but to place no value on the actual outcome itself.

A similar principle in poker (which has many lessons for life in general) is that as long as you keep making the correct decisions, in the long run you will win. If you invest emotionally in the prize you will likely make the wrong decision.

> A similar principle in poker (which has many lessons for life in general) is that as long as you keep making the correct decisions, in the long run you will win. If you invest emotionally in the prize you will likely make the wrong decision.

Excellent point. A bad outcome realized through a correct decision making process is painful, but is still a "better" result than a good outcome realized through a flawed decision making process. When poker players go "on tilt" they start breaking their process and it shows in their long run results.

There are few places where this is more on display than in high stakes poker tournaments.

Re: Most lives are lived by default

#133

Post by theorique » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 10:55 PM UTC

jes wrote: post #105

theorique wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The idea is to act as if the outcome of what you were working on was the most important thing in the world to you, but to place no value on the actual outcome itself.

So, I should work to be a great spouse (say), but not care whether I actually achieve that outcome? Why not work to achieve things of value precisely because they are of value to you?

Well, it's a paradox.

If you are fixated on the goal, rather than being present performing the actions that will get you to the goal, you are actually less likely to reach the goal successfully. Thinking about the goal obsessively is counterproductive.

Maybe "detach from the outcome" is a better word. Anchor your happiness and well-being on performing the actions within your control that you believe will take you to that outcome, and do not make that happiness and well-being conditional on reaching that outcome.

Re: Most lives are lived by default

#134

Post by bcasey » Fri, Dec 07, 2012, 11:06 PM UTC

nicholas73 wrote: post #131

bcasey wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely. The simplicity required for a peaceful life is really difficult to find in today's world. Additionally, it's a common misconception that primordial man was a poor wretch that scrounged for food, fought larger predators and generally lived a life in constant fear and hunger. I once read an article on Mark's Daily Apple ( http://www.marksdailyapple.com/about-2/who-is-grok/#axzz2ENJ... ) tha…

I have the same reasoning as you. The number will be whatever amount that generates the income to support your desired lifestyle. This could be in investments or low involvement business income. Thus the number for me is 2.5 million based off of 4% dividend for a 100k income (about single engineer middle class Bay Area only because dividends are taxed lower). Or a number of side businesses that add up to that income.

I love the idea of "a number of side businesses that add up to that income". Small, simple businesses that generate enough to make the ideal lifestyle possible. That's a strong goal. It's especially good considering your dividend-based alternative. I'm sure you've noticed that dividend stocks are getting hammered right now. :)

Re: Most lives are lived by default

#135

Post by alxndr » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 1:08 AM UTC

chadzawistowski wrote: post #103

jacquesc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem correct either. Extremes at either end are where entrepreneurs tend to live. Most people have to be willing to be poor, lose everything, and fail miserably in order to have a chance to be rich and live the life they want. This life obviously doesn't appeal to everyone, and many entrepreneurs manage to keep a balanced life. But at some point they'll get outmaneuvered by the ones who move faster and j…

>> Extremes at either end are bad. > That doesn't seem correct either. A rule that's always appealed to me is "Everything in moderation, including this rule."

Ha, I had phrased it "everything in moderation, including moderation"

Re: Most lives are lived by default

#136

Post by nicholas73 » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 7:14 AM UTC

bcasey wrote: post #134

nicholas73 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same reasoning as you. The number will be whatever amount that generates the income to support your desired lifestyle. This could be in investments or low involvement business income. Thus the number for me is 2.5 million based off of 4% dividend for a 100k income (about single engineer middle class Bay Area only because dividends are taxed lower). Or a number of side businesses that add up to that income.

I love the idea of "a number of side businesses that add up to that income". Small, simple businesses that generate enough to make the ideal lifestyle possible. That's a strong goal. It's especially good considering your dividend-based alternative. I'm sure you've noticed that dividend stocks are getting hammered right now. :)

Yeah, both fortunately and unfortunately I expect myself to be able to sooner build small business income to 100k than amass 2.5 million. Not that either is easy of course. Or even a reasonable expectation.

I wouldn't worry about stock price as you hopefully never have to sell a good income payer. But if you are buying, at some point a good dividend payer will fall until it's cheap enough for a good return, ie wait for the next crash. I think the dividend stocks are being sold off now because of uncertainty over tax rules in 2013 for dividends, and also since money has been chasing yield and made those stocks overbought.

Re: Most lives are lived by default

#137

Post by partomniscient » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 8:00 AM UTC

ChristopherM wrote: post #95

It's amazing how defensive some of these posts are because the poster has chosen to live a life by default. I once thought I wanted to climb the corporate ladder, to buy stuff, toys. More, more, more... I made my way into software management back in 2008. I was absolutely miserable. The routine, wake up to an alarm, get ready, run to work, work on someone else's ideas, have to listen to someone tell me what to do. Wh…

The 'Music and Life - Alan Watts' animation is a nice yet still succinct play on your 16)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4

Re: Most lives are lived by default

#138

Post by lightningstorm » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 9:26 AM UTC

conroe64 wrote: post #71

I don't like the premise that happiness is based on what you have, and what you do with your time. It always seems to be the underlying assumption, and it drives people to be unhappy to always be striving for better conditions for themselves. What gave me happiness is the idea in Buddhism fostering compassion for all people, including yourself, but not only yourself. It's the one aspect of Buddhism that most people i…

What if you have a lot of energy yet live in the country without much going on?

Would you be able using Buddhism to transform yourself to enjoy the surrounding or you better of moving to a big city with more happening around you?

I found that by living in different places you discover who you are. Then you can use the Buddhist approach to cope better with the downsides of living in the current area.