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Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#81

Post by aftbit »

Onavo wrote: post #69
aftbit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're working on it, slowly but surely. This has been a known problem for a long time, at least since 2009 if not earlier. GAMI's G100UL was approved as a 100LL replacement in 2022, but there is still some controversy. Avweb has done a good series of videos on this. There were some real engineering concerns and some typical aviation conservative decision making. But really, it's a tragedy of the FAA fumbling the ball…

A better way would be to switch to mogas and authorize cheap fuel system retrofits and maybe mandate dual FADECs on engines similar to the ADS B requirements. Your modern general aviation pistons can easily handle mogas. An even better way would been to encourage the migration to turbines and deprecate pistons entirely. Jet A (diesel) for the win. The new turbotechs regenerative turbines are a lot more reliable (3000…

As I understand it, a big part of the problem is that the general aviation market is too small to justify the expense of getting new designs certified. Also, it seems baked into the regulations that the old design was "good enough", so it still is today, even though technology has moved on.

When people are building experimental class piston airplanes with better features, reliability, and performance than the certified world can muster at half the price, you know something has gone wrong.

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#82

Post by schmookeeg »

Onavo wrote: post #69
aftbit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're working on it, slowly but surely. This has been a known problem for a long time, at least since 2009 if not earlier. GAMI's G100UL was approved as a 100LL replacement in 2022, but there is still some controversy. Avweb has done a good series of videos on this. There were some real engineering concerns and some typical aviation conservative decision making. But really, it's a tragedy of the FAA fumbling the ball…

A better way would be to switch to mogas and authorize cheap fuel system retrofits and maybe mandate dual FADECs on engines similar to the ADS B requirements. Your modern general aviation pistons can easily handle mogas. An even better way would been to encourage the migration to turbines and deprecate pistons entirely. Jet A (diesel) for the win. The new turbotechs regenerative turbines are a lot more reliable (3000…

I actually hope the turbotech holds up under actual use. I'd love to toss my IO-550Cs for Jet-A.

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#83

Post by Superfud »

vorticalbox wrote: post #71
hunmernop wrote: post #70

Gas itself is poison. Just take a deep huff at the gas station. EVs are the only way to go. At least the pollution is localized, not down every inner city street with exhaust and other vapors.

Maybe you can enlighten me. My question that once you mined the materials for the car + battery, shipped that somewhere to be built, then shipped that to be sold. Then you have the added waste battery once it not longer hold enough charge. Is it actually better for the environment? If we add all this extra pull on the grid we need to generate the power for that too.

Batteries fortunately do not destroy the raw materials they are made from. So eventually we can stop mining new raw materials once we have built enough batteries. In addition, batteries for cars live a surprising long time - and can be used to stabilize the grid once they diminish in oomf (technical term).

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#84

Post by anonymars »

tim-tday wrote: post #72
Fricken wrote: post #31

We've known about climate change for more than a century, but we're pigs, we don't care.

I think it’s important not to use the “we” word here. 1) Many people know and care. 2) some people lie for profit 3) other people are willfully ignorant and allow the liars keep at it because it’s more convenient. And even among those who know and care there’s different amounts people are willing to do about it. I imagine you (who theoretically know and care) still drive, fly, use plastic, Eat foods grown with petrol…

I think this is a good summary for politics generally

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#86

Post by flaunf221 »

masklinn wrote: post #67
flaunf221 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Most Dangerous Man Who Ever Lived The titles like annoy me to no end. Because Thomas Midgley was an engineer. Not overlord of General Motors. Not director. Not even a large shaholder. GM Leadership knew effects of TEL. And for decades traded everyone's health for their profits. Midgley is complicit, but he's just a small piece.

> Midgley is complicit, but he's just a small piece. Midgley used to tour around “proving” the safety of leaded gas by pouring it on his hands. And had to be treated twice for lead poisoning. He was very much a culprit.

Are we going to measure things by who got most sick or by who got the most out of it? Because if Midgley gets sick and his boss who knows everything gets a million dollars, I will blame his boss more.

For example Charles Kettering (essentially boss of Midgley) was Director of Research for 27 years at GM. Was large shareholder of GM. And he hired Robert Arthur Kehoe to prove that TEL is safe. And Kehoe did. The "proof" was that "you didn't definitively prove that TEL is unsafe, so it's okay".

Btw Kehoe is also the one who certified that Freon is safe.

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#88

Post by b-kf »

dang wrote: post #87

Discussed at the time (of the article): Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 - Sept 2021 (399 comments)

`Discussed at the time` and here I expected a link to a HN thread from the 1920s!

But yes, `(of the article)`, guess my reaction was anticipated :)

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#89

Post by fragmede »

Superfud wrote: post #83
vorticalbox wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you can enlighten me. My question that once you mined the materials for the car + battery, shipped that somewhere to be built, then shipped that to be sold. Then you have the added waste battery once it not longer hold enough charge. Is it actually better for the environment? If we add all this extra pull on the grid we need to generate the power for that too.

Batteries fortunately do not destroy the raw materials they are made from. So eventually we can stop mining new raw materials once we have built enough batteries. In addition, batteries for cars live a surprising long time - and can be used to stabilize the grid once they diminish in oomf (technical term).

The fact that we're throwing them into the garbage in the form of disposable vapes doesn't give me hope for the future tho.

Re: Leaded gas was a known poison the day it was invented (2016)

#90

Post by s1artibartfast »

digitaltrees wrote: post #18
Epa095 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did these same people vote differently earlier? Does the effect of leaded gasoline show up later in life? And does not explain all the young men voting for him.

They didn’t vote differently. There were a larger number of the greatest generation that were more comfortable with shared sacrifice in service of society and less entitled like the baby boomers are.

The greatest generation has been <5% of population since like 05'. baby boomers were 30+% and probably higher for voters.
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