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Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

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Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#111

Post by jlgreco »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #98
nathanb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux isn't free, not only does it cost time, it costs privacy. How does that follow? I'm assuming you're using an economic rather than ideological definition of the world "free", which sort of misunderstands the point of the article, but OK. The Linux kernel does not, to my knowledge, include anything which explicitly violates your privacy. If a Linux system distributor chooses to install privacy-invading bits on…

>The Linux kernel Its 100% obvious from the context of my post that I was using linux as a shorthand for this distro. I really hate this disingenuous rhetorical trick. When people start talking about stupid things distros do suddenly its "OH WAIT, LINUX IS JUST A KERNEL!" Err, no one is just running the kernel. We're all running some distro. Its like a 'god of the gaps' argument for geeks. You get backed into a corne…

"Linux" is not a valid shorthand for "Ubuntu" when you are saying things like "Linux costs privacy". Using such unannounced "shorthands" makes you appear to be a troll, and because of Poe's Law it is exceedingly difficult to rule out the possibility that trolling is exactly what you are doing.

If you want to avoid these accusations, be clear and either type out Ubuntu instead of saving a single letter by writing Linux, or explicitly announce your "shorthand".

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#112

Post by idm »

jdangu wrote: post #62

Was pleased to see a reference to Fravia in RMS's article. For the sake of comparison, here's a 1998 essay about what Microsoft was specifically doing in Win95: http://71.6.196.237/fravia/mmstory.htm

Good old Fravia. Like Stallman, Fravia seems to have been "hard to swallow" by the community at large. However, just like Stallman, when you dug into Fravia's stuff it turned out to be pretty great.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#113

Post by bad_user »

iamtherockstar wrote: post #68

My sister home schools two kids, cooks three squares a day, and doesn't care if someone knows she googled for "bread pudding recipe." They have an old, aging computer, and when I gave an Ubuntu CD to her husband, they were so incredibly grateful. I see this feature being excellent for her, because she has a bunch of documents on her computer that contain her recipes, and then maybe she'll see a cookbook she might wan…

This is such bullshit. There is a big difference between googling and searching your own files, while the anecdote you give probably accounts for only 1% of that computer's usage or even less. Reading this opinion I even pictured a stock-photo with family members gathered around a laptop, stupidly laughing at a photo of "bread pudding".

Your sister could be searching within her own files for strings like "last year debt", "ass ventura crack detective", "bondage", "dvdrip" and "office keygen".

I'm sure your sister doesn't do that, but other people do. And searches can express and hint to your deepest desires/taboos and things that might lead one to think of illegal activities.

My non-technical wife asked me one day, during a funny conversation about sex gadgets, if people at Google can see what she's typing and I taught her how to use incognito mode. At some point I also made her aware that Facebook sends and publishes her lat/lon coordinates when typing a message from her phone. She understood the dangers of online activity and took steps to protect herself, without me even trying too hard to explain, but this required some amount of education which is out of reach for most normal people who either don't have a technical friend that understands such issues, or that technical friend thinks it isn't a problem, such as yourself.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#114

Post by mylittlepony »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #98
nathanb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux isn't free, not only does it cost time, it costs privacy. How does that follow? I'm assuming you're using an economic rather than ideological definition of the world "free", which sort of misunderstands the point of the article, but OK. The Linux kernel does not, to my knowledge, include anything which explicitly violates your privacy. If a Linux system distributor chooses to install privacy-invading bits on…

>The Linux kernel Its 100% obvious from the context of my post that I was using linux as a shorthand for this distro. I really hate this disingenuous rhetorical trick. When people start talking about stupid things distros do suddenly its "OH WAIT, LINUX IS JUST A KERNEL!" Err, no one is just running the kernel. We're all running some distro. Its like a 'god of the gaps' argument for geeks. You get backed into a corne…

And all distros have malware? Or just Ubuntu?

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#115

Post by Shamanmuni »

belorn wrote: post #59

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then. This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being…

Personally, while I generally agree with rms, in this particular situation I think he went overboard. Not in expressing his opinion, but in the way he did it.

I say this as a free software advocate; this situation arises from a sad reality, and one that rms doesn't even address: it's really hard to make money from free software. I don't think Mark Shuttleworth was enthusiastic about sending users' information, the deal with Amazon is just a way to try to monetize an OS which its users mostly don't pay for.

So, instead of rallying the people to boycott Canonical, rms should be more understanding of the situation. After all, the Free Software Foundation is well aware of the difficulties of obtaining money in this space. Have you noticed that the three biggest patrons of the FSF are companies whose money comes largely from non-free software? I'm talking about Google, Oracle and IBM. What does it tell us about the free software movement. https://www.fsf.org/patrons

We are close to 2013, many years ago, when I started using Slackware Linux, I would have expected that by this time there would be many thriving companies offering free software solutions for the desktop and competing for my money based not on lock-in, but on quality and innovation. Where's my flying car?

I understand and completely support the "respect user's privacy" argument, but we should also understand the "money doesn't fall from trees" argument and seek acceptable solutions, otherwise the year of Linux on the desktop will never come.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#116

Post by drivebyacct2 »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #79
belorn wrote: post #59

A lot of people are pointing out that if you do not like something, don't use it. It's simple enough, and have a "sounds right" tone to it. As an implied statement with this, anyone complaining should just shut up then. This is a rather crazy line of thought once one actually starts to think about it. If I see a poisonous (say rotten) food being sold, I find it almost my duty to inform people. Somehow it's now being…

This is a great example of how nothing is free. Linux isn't free, not only does it cost time, it costs privacy. I do enjoy playing with it, so the first cost is meaningless to me, but the second absolutely is not. Frankly, Ubuntu is mismanaged. From the absurd new UI to a built-in privacy trojan? I'd rather just pay for an OS that doesn't hate me or use a different distro. Not sure what the allure of Ubuntu is at thi…

>Linux isn't free, not only does it cost time, it costs privacy

What a nonsensical statement.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#117

Post by willvarfar »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #38

Are there other distros with Wubi (or something like it) and automatic updates? If it weren't for Wubi I don't think I would have ever fully switched to Linux. VMs are OK for a bit and repartitioning is right out if all you want to do is try something out for a while. I don't use Ubuntu anymore but Wubi really was the gateway drug for me. I personally don't care about automatic updates but I think it's a big one for…

Xubuntu is a WUBI option now. Works a charm.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#118

Post by jackalope »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #98
nathanb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux isn't free, not only does it cost time, it costs privacy. How does that follow? I'm assuming you're using an economic rather than ideological definition of the world "free", which sort of misunderstands the point of the article, but OK. The Linux kernel does not, to my knowledge, include anything which explicitly violates your privacy. If a Linux system distributor chooses to install privacy-invading bits on…

>The Linux kernel Its 100% obvious from the context of my post that I was using linux as a shorthand for this distro. I really hate this disingenuous rhetorical trick. When people start talking about stupid things distros do suddenly its "OH WAIT, LINUX IS JUST A KERNEL!" Err, no one is just running the kernel. We're all running some distro. Its like a 'god of the gaps' argument for geeks. You get backed into a corne…

Yet, instead of singling out the offending distro (Ubuntu), you implicated all Linux-based operating systems. It's not 100% obvious what you meant by painting with such a wide brush.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#119

Post by drivebyacct2 »

Karunamon wrote: post #101
king_jester wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you dismiss RMS's arguments just because he doesn't talk and write the way you think he should? Talk about derailment, by this logic you don't have to agree with anyone or anything just as long as you feel they aren't nice or polite or well spoken enough.

just because he doesn't talk and write the way you think he should If he can't communicate his ideas in a calm and balanced way, perhaps those ideas don't have as much value as he thinks they do. Sorry, but method of delivery counts for a lot.

Not really.

Re: Ubuntu Spyware: What to Do?

#120

Post by drcube »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #98
nathanb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux isn't free, not only does it cost time, it costs privacy. How does that follow? I'm assuming you're using an economic rather than ideological definition of the world "free", which sort of misunderstands the point of the article, but OK. The Linux kernel does not, to my knowledge, include anything which explicitly violates your privacy. If a Linux system distributor chooses to install privacy-invading bits on…

>The Linux kernel Its 100% obvious from the context of my post that I was using linux as a shorthand for this distro. I really hate this disingenuous rhetorical trick. When people start talking about stupid things distros do suddenly its "OH WAIT, LINUX IS JUST A KERNEL!" Err, no one is just running the kernel. We're all running some distro. Its like a 'god of the gaps' argument for geeks. You get backed into a corne…

There are hundreds of distros, and Ubuntu is the only one that does this. Ubuntu != Linux. Who is using the rhetorical trick, again?
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