Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#741

Post by breppp » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 2:53 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #124

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

> >This is how you behave when you think you're so much smarter than everyone around you that consequences don't apply you.

To me this sounds more like an extreme response to imposter syndrome, as in take the documents and the actual knowledge with you so you won't be exposed

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#742

Post by thraway3837 » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 2:56 PM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #354

Robdel12 wrote: post #70

OpenAI is about to get ROCKED on this. From this report, this looks open and shut. Apple has basically infinite money and incredible lawyers. Not sure what OpenAI can counter with unless they have clear, hard evidence this hasn’t been happening.

This is when I wish Jobs was still in charge of Apple. I never quite liked him, but I like Altman way less. And Jobs would CRUCIFY the whole openAI team for this. It would be beautiful to watch.

It wouldn’t be effective at accomplishing anything. He wanted to go thermonuclear (his words) on Google and Samsung. Yet here they are, equal heavyweights to Apple.

I love Apple, and I’m a fanboy, but they are not the good guys.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#743

Post by ninjagoo » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 2:57 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #648

pdpi wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the only reason you didn't behave that way to begin with is that you lack the money and power to evade the consequences, then yes. You really are that person.

while i somewhat agree with that reasoning, it can go too far - most people would murder and kill if there weren't any consequences to doing so. But is it right to say who they really are as being murderers?

> most people would murder and kill if there weren't any consequences to doing so

Do you have any evidence to support this? Feels like this opinion is made up, for unknown reasons.

In reality, psychopathic tendencies are about 4.5% in the general adult population, a far cry from 'most people', with the gold standard assessment being only 1.2%. [1]

From that same article, "The construct of psychopathy is understood generically as a type of personality disorder characterized, among other important features, by the presence of behaviors that conflict with the social, moral, or legal norms of society, giving rise in many cases to clearly criminal behaviors ..."

There's also the bagel experiment described in Freakonomics. [2]

[1] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10....

[2] https://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/WhatTheBagelM...

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#744

Post by cosmicgadget » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 3:04 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #480

cosmicgadget wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't sound too heinous. As far as I am aware, employers aren't entitled to exit processes so long as they get their property back. OpenAI possessing an offboarding checklist accessible to any Apple manager doesn't seem like an IP issue. I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from this part other than Apple trying to imply OpenAI has something to hide.

They're more than trying to imply it. Apple says "This is the tip of the iceberg", and a lawsuit is necessary to uncover the full scope of what they think OpenAI has to hide. > As far as I am aware, employers aren't entitled to exit processes so long as they get their property back. They're not, but one of the defendants allegedly dodged returning his company laptop. It's then alleged that he used it to continue acce…

> Apple says "This is the tip of the iceberg", and a lawsuit is necessary to uncover the full scope of what they think OpenAI has to hide.

Forgive me if I trust neither side's grandiose claims.

> one of the defendants allegedly dodged returning his company laptop

Yeah that accusation sounds sufficiently provable that it would be surprising if it was false. That being said, Apple claims it's part of a pattern that seems very inconsistent.

Considering how brazen Liu was, this could be a case of smug engineer and not corporate espionage.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#745

Post by wavemode » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 3:06 PM UTC

mayneack wrote: post #242

generj wrote: post #31

Apple kindly wanted to make OpenAI add in some legal liabilities to their IPO filling. Discovery is going to be great fun (for Apple).

this will settle before it gets to discovery I bet

Apple isn't bringing this lawsuit for the cash. For publicity reasons this will go to trial.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#746

Post by anon7000 » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 3:07 PM UTC

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #546

Lio wrote: post #454

OpenAI is a company built on copyright violation. That means it’s in the corporate DNA to treat laws as things for little people. Apple have deep enough pockets that they can actually sue OpenAI but I bet OpenAI are surprised they got caught. Now ask yourself, would the Codex agents on your machine ever over step legal boundaries? Would OpenAI ever make use of data you, voluntarily, send to their servers? If they did…

And Apple is a company built on anti trust violations[1]. Every company that sees it profitable to break the law and pay a fine seems to do it. There are no “good guys”. [1] https://www.theverge.com/apple/659296/apple-failed-complianc...

Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand though. Ok, so every massive company (including OpenAI) is built on anti-trust violations. I agree we should go after everyone for this, but whether Apple has done bad stuff is a complete distraction from IP violations at OpenAI

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#747

Post by thraway3837 » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 3:09 PM UTC

jonReadingNews wrote: post #466

html5cat wrote: post #197

Interesting how Tang Yew Tan worked at Apple for 25 years (!!) and then threw it all out for this.

not even the first time https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/iyo-sues-former-eng... Edit: this was a year ago

Wow. Was just going to comment about how Tan threw away his professional credibility. This stuff will be the first result that comes up in a search or LLM.

He’s made terrible decisions since leaving Apple. I wonder if MIT/folks will now investigate his entire academic career as well.

What a way to throw away 25 years of hard work. Started off as a designer and worked his way up to VP. I’m sure we’ll hear from anonymous Apple employees about the nature of this person. Maybe he was pleasant to work with?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#748

Post by sk4rekr0w » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 3:10 PM UTC

alpineman wrote: post #547

sk4rekr0w wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is way overstated. OpenAI will certainly launch devices. It is to be seen how competitive they are and how much product market fit they achieve. OpenAI also has better data retention policies relative to Anthropic on SOTA models.

Do you really believe those policies after stories like this?

The word "stories" in your sentence is very instructive

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#749

Post by thraway3837 » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 3:12 PM UTC

uhfraid wrote: post #162

I forgot they were still working on a device, any guesses what it is? I’m guessing a wrist wearable

Likely a device where the largest share of interaction pattern is through voice conversations and chats with the system to get it to do things for you: messages, email, etc.

It would have to run Android, and try to provide compatibility for existing apps in order for this to be a successful device.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#750

Post by BoorishBears » Sat, Jul 11, 2026, 3:14 PM UTC

inexcf wrote: post #735

Closi wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure on that: 1) Lots of people think they are partly complicit in all the skins trading/gambling that children do, which is basically skirting gambling laws. This has culminated in a current lawsuit in New York which claims they broke gambling laws. 2) They also currently have a large antitrust lawsuit going on, due to them requiring Most Favored Nation pricing while setting a 30% commission fee vs 12% on co…

1) This is a legit point although i don't see Valve as a big problem in that area. They invented lootboxes but refused to be as bad as others who followed them. Today with valve these things are restricted purely to cosmetics. 2) is weak. The 30% rate was set in 2003 when Steam had zero market power and was identical to the rate used by Apple, PlayStation, Xbox, and Nintendo. Valve later added tiered reductions (25%…

30% was set when they were handpicking every title, a home internet line today was a $10,000+ a month DC connection, and they could legitimately replace a publisher taking 60%.

The fact they whittled away the value they provided time and time again until they became a market of slop and had the audacity to keep a 30% cut is insane.

It's funny that gamers villainize Sweeny for being the person that they think Newell is. It turns out trying to deliver value in a market has tough as gaming is not easy, and you will make tons of mistakes... at least compared to extracting nearly every dollar you can and leaving a skeleton crew to run the ship.

And I guess make $1,100 PS4s as a side hustle.