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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#581

Post by latexr »

ozgung wrote: post #543
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

I think a mandatory first thing for any engineer is to learn, understand and commit for life to the Ethics of their profession. It's a shame all these very picky recruitment processes and 'culture' of these giant companies didn't care about ethics and morality. Relevant articles in IEEE Code of Ethics: 3. to avoid real or perceived conflicts of interest whenever possible, and to disclose them to affected parties when…

> I think a mandatory first thing for any engineer is to learn, understand and commit for life to the Ethics of their profession.

That’ll never happen with the current incentives. Programming is too easy to get started with and too well-paid to not attract unethical people who are only interested in money.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#582

Post by redbluered »

hiworld6543 wrote: post #542
ryandrake wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture issue. From How to Apply to Y Combinator [1] by Paul Graham: "Please tell us about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage." > we’re not looking for the sort of obedient, middle-of-the-road people that big companies tend to hire. We’re looking for people who like to beat the system. 1: https://www.ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html

[flagged]

You're a racist.

The way to tell between that and factual / culturally-fluent: were you able to any strengths of other cultures? Weaknesses of your own?

Or did you go off on an (in this case ill-informed) rant about "they bad"?

The way to cure it is a mixture of reading: business books on culture (like Meyer and Hofstede) and NATO ones. Those are places people need to work together, as opposed to woke ideology.

Then, application. Travel is good here.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#583

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

> Non-competes and the like are gross but what's described here isn't just "bring your expertise to OpenAI" it's "here is how to steal secrets on your way out" which is even grosser.

Most of what happened in this case is straight-up illegal and other parts can be covered by NDA. No need for non-competes to prevent any of this.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#584

Post by latexr »

gdhvkkk wrote: post #363
neya wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice how the description never included the term "ethical". That's something you injected as an assumption to make a counter point. Not blaming you, just highlighting the flaw in your argument. Because, the lack of mention of that word IS a culture issue.

> Because, the lack of mention of that word IS a culture issue. or, how you interpret the question is part of the interview process...

Sam Altman clearly has no qualms with lying and being unethical and eventually was at the front of Y Combinator, so that question either doesn’t care for ethics, doesn’t do a good job of filtering, or specifically filters in favour of unethical behaviour.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#586

Post by tonyedgecombe »

kbelder wrote: post #84
stavros wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because companies get an advantage by having their people do this. You only hear about the times they get caught, but apparently they get caught so rarely that it's worth it.

Everywhere I've ever worked, if I went to management and said "hey, I've got some files from my last job, if you want to see them," they would say "absolutely not, please get rid of them RIGHT NOW," and probably fire me. But, I don't work in Silicon Valley.

I had the opposite issue, I once got criticised for not bringing client information with me.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#587

Post by small_model »

palmotea wrote: post #490
appplication wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. Their rationale? “It’s mine, they owed me this”. They are 100% convinced that the…

> An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. $95k does not seems like enough money to totally upend your life like that for.

Yes seems like would cost a portion of it to execute the escape. Should have just bet it on a 10/1 shot and then kept the 900k if it worked out.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#589

Post by msdz »

xnx wrote: post #548
hawaiianbrah wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's more that money and power enable you to be who you really are If you’re only a certain way when you have money and power, is it really “who you really are”?

Yes. "Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals"

Same goes for money: It enables greedy jerks to be more greedy and more of a jerky, and it enables people who e.g. voluntarily donated already to do much more in that direction, too.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#590

Post by joe_mamba »

rixed wrote: post #467
joe_mamba wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in l…

> This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview Why not? Sounds not that hard. I actually believe this is something that would make a candidate looks good in an interview for many large corporations.

>Why not?

Because people lie?

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