The older I get, the closer in time these ancient civilizations become. It's really not that many lifetimes away.
It's stunning the progress humans have made since then.
Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
81–90 of 213 posts
Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
They actually called themselves Ῥωμαῖοι, not Romani, and not every description needs to be emic. There's nothing wrong with the label "Byzantine" except to Byzaboos.
So I shouldn't call them Romans, since that is an English translation of what they called themselves, and thus foreign to them. But you can call them Byzantines, an English term invented in the 19th century, because... you say so? Thank you, I have been enlightened.
Tell me, do you call people from China Chinese? Japan Japanese? Germany German? If so, you're a hypocrite.
You're also arguing against a strawman. I never said they weren't Roman. I only said there's nothing wrong with Byzantine.
Maybe if you weren't so smugly self-righteous, you'd have better reading comprehension.
Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not just Islamic conquest but Arab conquest. Up to this point Arabs lived mainly in, well, Arabia. The indigenous peoples of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc..., were all non-Arab. Nowadays those indigenous groups are known as Copts, Syriacs, Chaldeans, etc...
Legitimate question, in the early days was this a large distinction? Specifically, my understanding was that the earliest raids where this distinction is most accurate, they didn't actually change the local societies much. Mostly were raids for resources and did not stay. That is, until the Islamic raids started, the indigenous groups took losses, but were not nearly as transformed. Is that not accurate?
Well, the distinction mattered. But because the distinction mattered, the modern labels aren't really accurate.
Arabs were the highest-prestige ethnicity within their empire. But they were numerically insignificant. You have "Arabs" and "Copts" in Egypt today, but most of the "Arabs" are Copts whose ancestors decided they wanted more respect. Same thing is true farther west, where the "Arabs" are Berbers.
Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#84A Byzantine lost city around the year 400 CE.
Not singling you out, all the articles do it, but: Strange to call this Byzantine. The coins found are from the reign of Constantius II, who at times ruled the whole empire alone (as did his successor Julian). The idea that the East, even when administered separately, was some foreign/"Byzantine"/not- really -Roman "other" was invented much later.
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Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not singling you out, all the articles do it, but: Strange to call this Byzantine. The coins found are from the reign of Constantius II, who at times ruled the whole empire alone (as did his successor Julian). The idea that the East, even when administered separately, was some foreign/"Byzantine"/not- really -Roman "other" was invented much later.
But he never said Byzantium wasnt Roman? I get that there is controversy about if Byzantium was Roman. But the person you’re replying to doesn’t seem to be making any claims about that.
There are a lot of people who only learned about history through memes or online talking points, but this is one of those things that is passed around that way.
Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
They actually called themselves Ῥωμαῖοι, not Romani, and not every description needs to be emic. There's nothing wrong with the label "Byzantine" except to Byzaboos.
> Byzaboos Hey that's fresh. Do they have Hittitomori too?
I'd love to see that! I can't take credit for the term. There are some people who are extreme fans of the Byzantine empire and defend it at every turn. I can kind of get recent history, but being a fanatic about an ancient polity strikes this trained historian as utterly bizarre.
Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
They actually called themselves Ῥωμαῖοι, not Romani, and not every description needs to be emic. There's nothing wrong with the label "Byzantine" except to Byzaboos.
So I shouldn't call them Romans, since that is an English translation of what they called themselves, and thus foreign to them. But you can call them Byzantines, an English term invented in the 19th century, because... you say so? Thank you, I have been enlightened.
Separately, your facts are wrong, because it was centuries before that the word Byzantine was first used to describe this era of the latter eastern Roman empire. Oops, might want to read a book instead of looking at memes.
Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#88Quite incredible how you can search for this information and it's all just the same article with the same pictures. No maps or anything.
>Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert Sounds incredibly misleading, as if some long lost civ is rising from sand dunes, lol. As far as I'm aware, there have just been ruins uncovered (which look like 6 rooms on the pictures) at Dakhla Oasis, and the site is very obvious on Google Maps.
Are they speaking about Kellis? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellis https://maps.app.goo.gl/65daKj9K8qJ35x1c9
Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#89> During this period, from the late fourth to the mid-seventh century AD, Christianity became the dominant religion, towns expanded across the country and Egypt served as one of the empire's richest provinces. It's easy to forget how different the Middle East looked before the conquest of Islam starting in 600 AD.
Islam has sure done a number on cultural diversity in the world.
It's such a shame that the various cultural holdouts in the Middle East never get much attention when they're systematically wiped off the map.
The Mandaeans in the marshes near Basra will probably be next to disappear into the sands of time. Not even a whisper in the media.
Oil sure has a way of drowning out 'human rights' in conversation.
Re: Lost city discovered beneath Egypt's desert with ancient church
#90> During this period, from the late fourth to the mid-seventh century AD, Christianity became the dominant religion, towns expanded across the country and Egypt served as one of the empire's richest provinces. It's easy to forget how different the Middle East looked before the conquest of Islam starting in 600 AD.
Islam has sure done a number on cultural diversity in the world. It's such a shame that the various cultural holdouts in the Middle East never get much attention when they're systematically wiped off the map. The Mandaeans in the marshes near Basra will probably be next to disappear into the sands of time. Not even a whisper in the media. Oil sure has a way of drowning out 'human rights' in conversation.
Try reading about Kafiristan, where primitive Hinduism (think Rig Veda) survived for 3500 years before being wiped out in the 1890s by a British-appointed Islamic despot.