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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#341
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need criminal charges to be filed against Liu, Tan and Peng. (And deep discovery to find anything Altman might have said to or about them.)

Wait, who is “we”? Why are you so invested in enforcing Apple’s IP rights?

Bad people in control of AI is incredibly dangerous.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#342
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been seeing this “high-trust society” dog whistle a lot lately, and I think it’s one of the funniest of its kind. You truly want me to believe that the United States, a country with a history of slavery and segregation, a country that went through a historical period dominated by people literally called “robber barons,” was a high-trust society before immigrants from less industrialized places came and ruined th…

It isn’t a dog whistle. The US actually does have a high-trust society compared to most of the world. Petty theft, snatching, pickpockets, scams, etc are relatively uncommon compared to e.g. many popular places in Europe. Americans are famously vulnerable to it when traveling because it isn’t really part of their domestic threat environment. In many areas, Americans don’t bother to lock anything. You can leave stuff…

> Petty theft, snatching, pickpockets, scams, etc are relatively uncommon compared to e.g. many popular places in Europe.

Yes, in non-popular places in Europe those are also quite uncommon, even more then in the US on average..

So the lesson here is that those type of crimes are common in tourist heavy places, like.. Times Square in NYC for example.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture issue. From How to Apply to Y Combinator [1] by Paul Graham: "Please tell us about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage." > we’re not looking for the sort of obedient, middle-of-the-road people that big companies tend to hire. We’re looking for people who like to beat the system. 1: https://www.ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html

Nah You can beat the system and be disobedient while still behaving ethically. In fact that's the very best time to beat the system and be disobedient.

And, if YC is paying attention, this question might make a good filter for the unethical folks who’re willing to admit to their misdeeds.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#344
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been seeing this “high-trust society” dog whistle a lot lately, and I think it’s one of the funniest of its kind. You truly want me to believe that the United States, a country with a history of slavery and segregation, a country that went through a historical period dominated by people literally called “robber barons,” was a high-trust society before immigrants from less industrialized places came and ruined th…

US office culture is generally pretty high trust. It has relatively high autonomy, authority, and low surveillance norms. I don't know what that has to do with a historical period of slavery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#345
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're earning $100k in Silicon Valley, your expenses will swallow up almost all of that. A sudden $100k windfall, on the other hand, tax free and suitably invested,will let you live for years quite comfortably in many poor countries.

Sorry to disappoint you, but no you cannot live "comfortably" in "poor countries" for $100,000 for "years". Well, unless you mean like two years. I lived across South East Asia for more than decade and now live here full time. I have to live on around $20,000 / year most of the time since starting my company. And I do not live anywhere close to what average US / EU citizen will call "comfortable" let alone people fro…

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once worked at a cybersecurity firm and they had a particularly botched rollout of MDM to Macs (which would regularly put the machine into an undesirable mode of 100% CPU usage plus max out upload bandwidth repeatedly trying and failing to backup the machine to some online backup service). I had work to do, so I simply disabled the MDM profile for the machine, installed an OS to my liking, and restored the apps I w…

> then suggested I did get hired for my cybersecurity expertise, that I do take my obligations seriously, and he could just ask me to do whatever they were planning to do from the MDM console, and it would get done. He insisted that wouldn't be necessary since in his worldview the MDM was unbreakable and he just needed to reconnect to Wi-Fi or something. > Very amusing worldview. It’s ironic that you’re displaying th…

Sounds like the boss's response was not to insist the proper procedure be followed, but to assert that the technology had to work as intended, and as soon as he figured out the issue on _his side_ the standard operating procedure could be followed.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my early career, I used my work computer (off hours) to do personal work. I never made any money, but it was still wrong. At some point, I couldn’t live with myself, and purchased my own computer (better than what work gave me, anyway). I never used my personal cell for work. The closest thing was coordinating meetups, when traveling.

If you are worried about the ethics of using a company laptop to do personal work, you might be taking it a bit far, what damage does this do to the company? If you are worried about the company claiming rights over your personal work, then it is prudent.

1) It really had nothing to do with what damage it does to the company. It’s a long story, but I take personal Integrity fairly seriously. It was about how I felt about it, inside. As I progressed, in my self-development, “cash register” honestly became more important.

2) That’s definitely a valid point. I have worked on free/open-source code for most of my adult life. For a long time, it was for my own use, but I started publishing code for use by others, and provenance became a much more important coefficient.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t put my company’s IP on their servers, because I don’t trust them to not steal it.

I do hope Anthropic are better with IP, and I think they may be. Given Dario Amodei hasn't been sued by OpenAI while building Anthropic this seems likely. I think Amodei may actually be quite a good human, despite my trust in big tech being at an all-time low.

You have not a single clue what kind of human he is

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#349
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're earning $100k in Silicon Valley, your expenses will swallow up almost all of that. A sudden $100k windfall, on the other hand, tax free and suitably invested,will let you live for years quite comfortably in many poor countries.

Sorry to disappoint you, but no you cannot live "comfortably" in "poor countries" for $100,000 for "years". Well, unless you mean like two years. I lived across South East Asia for more than decade and now live here full time. I have to live on around $20,000 / year most of the time since starting my company. And I do not live anywhere close to what average US / EU citizen will call "comfortable" let alone people fro…

I agree (from semi-relevant experience). Also, any “poor” country that’s inexpensive enough to fit this requirements probably isn’t one you’d voluntarily live in.

Side note for the original commenter: It would be kinder and more accurate to state “lower cost of living countries” than “poor countries”. There are numerous lower COL countries that offer a higher quality of life a than that of the US but they aren’t “poor” (I moved to one).

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#350
This is basically the end of OpenAI hardware. This is by far worst than the Waymo vs. Uber lawsuit which killed the Uber self driving project.

Also if you are a business using OpenAI models, I would highly suggest you do not because they are most likely looking at your code and IP.

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