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Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#871

Post by FabCH »

freehorse wrote: post #869
FabCH wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Because taxes and money are not everything. You do not buy welfare, it’s not an insurance. It’s a social safety net provided by the society irrespective of how much money you contributed to it. So the criteria for getting welfare must be something else, for example are you a permanent member of the society in question. 2) The actual non-exhaustive list of ways to prove you are integrated in Switzerland, Kt. ZH is:…

1a) > criteria for getting welfare must be something else, for example are you a permanent member of the society in question But the discussion is about exactly who should be legally recognised as "permanent member of the society". I am saying that a long term resident in a country, who participates in the economic and social life should have the same access to welfare. A person who lives somewhere long term (several…

You don’t need to meet all of them. You need to meet any of them.

Which makes it almost trivial for parents for example because you just need to send your kids to a normal school instead of an expat only private school.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#872

Post by lifestyleguru »

froh wrote: post #848
lifestyleguru wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every service provider and every membership in Germany.

nah. I'm talking TuSpo 1846 or Post SV or Dt. Alpenverein or Gesangsverein whathaveyou or Tanzsportverein Blau Weiss or Freunde der Modelleisenbahn sth or LSVD or Kleingartenverein etc etc etc traditional clubs with a constitution and real self organized base democratic involvement and leadership you get the idea. not the "let's save some tax" scam pseudo clubs where you are not a voting member but just a service cus…

Well too late mate, it can be now the nicest verein on the planet but it's too late.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#873

Post by aleph_minus_one »

carlosjobim wrote: post #865
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then it's no wonder if skilled workers want to leave. I am not so sure whether it's about "skilled": If you want a fast career, Germany is likely not for you. On the other hand, if you simply want to apply your great skills in a job, I wouldn't say that Germany is a bad place: I would even claim because the skills are much more appreciated by companies in Germany, the system is rather centered around that you tend…

But nothing is arbitrary about people becoming better at what they do, and thus deserving at least better compensation. Of course companies appreciate an employee who just becomes better at her job every day while remaining on the same pay. Who wouldn't like to benefit from such an idiot? "A lot of use" - cool - but that should translate into a lot of compensation. If you ask people, the majority would probably be ha…

Typically the pay does increase over the years, but depending on the company, the increase can be slow (but the details depend on the specific company).

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#874

Post by dudul »

fallingbananna wrote: post #657
dudul wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you live 6 years in a country without reaching B1?

You don't magically get language skills by living in the country. You still have to put in the time and effort. The utmost basics, A1, you could learn very quickly and those will get you through basic interactions (buying groceries, greeting neighbors, etc.) At work, doctors, apartment search etc. you can use English. For contracts you can use translate, since B1 wouldn't get you far there anyway. But to get to B1, y…

> You don't magically get language skills by living in the country. You still have to put in the time and effort.

Did I say otherwise? How do you live 6 years in a country without putting in the effort to learn the language? You're there, watch TV, talk to people, read books, take a class here or there. Come on, how do you put yourself, for 6 years, in a situation where you don't learn the language?

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#875

Post by marcus_holmes »

graemep wrote: post #859
exoverito wrote: post #855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race is not skin color. Albino Sub-Saharans are very obviously not European. People of course prefer others that share their language, culture, religion and politics. Race is often highly correlated to those. To ignore the dimension of genetics is to willfully blind yourself to reality.

What dimension of genetics? Race is not genetic. If you try to cluster people by genetic similarity the end result does not look like people's idea of "race" at all, and different (even closely related cultures like the UK and the US) have different classifications of race. http://pietersz.co.uk/2023/08/racism-culture-different In the days of racial science (so up to the 1950s or so) some east Africans and South Asia…

"Race" as used in this sense is almost uniquely an USA thing, exported to right-wing movements elsewhere.

A white USA citizen will have more in common culturally, religiously and politically with a black USA citizen than any white European, Australian or New Zealander.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#876

Post by yuye »

FinnLobsien wrote: post #178

I‘m German, but I no longer live in Germany, so I can’t relate to the experience of immigrating to Germany. I think a big part of the issue is a certain German presumptuousness. There’s a general sense that Germany is a prosperous, influential country. The reason for that must be that things are done correctly in Germany. I think this is an inherited attitude that doesn’t really correspond to reality anymore as syste…

>There’s a general sense that Germany is a prosperous, influential country. The reason for that must be that things are done correctly in Germany.

I'm from the Netherlands(also not living there anymore) and I recognize this arrogance there, too.

And at the same time, almost paradoxically, the Netherlands has an inferiority complex.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#877

Post by yuye »

DStiego wrote: post #559

I see two big problems: 1. A "meta-problem": While many Germans agree that things are bad, people favour completely opposite solutions. My meta-solution to that would be decentralisation and letting more things be decided locally, but unfortunately Germans are united in favouring centralisation these days. 2. There's a strong superposition of "things are bad" and "we are still the best"; a high degree of defensivenes…

>2. There's a strong superposition of "things are bad" and "we are still the best";

These can be reconciled by good old xenophobia: "Yes, things are horrible, but the way they do it is worse because it is not the way we do it"

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#878

Post by ralferoo »

graemep wrote: post #860
ralferoo wrote: post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they are correct according to the meaning of the word. Expats simply means someone who resides outside of their native country. I guess colloquially it probably implies moving somewhere as an adult, but the word itself doesn't carry that meaning (it's literally ex=outside + patris=homeland). But for instance, my sister has lived permanently in New Zealand for 25 years now (and a few years prior to her permanent m…

That is the original definition, but then all immigrants are expats, and all expats are migrants. The words become synonyms. Then its become very interesting to ask why people prefer one word over the other for particular groups of people.

To me, it's useful because it frames it in terms of social connections in the target country and because how it works with an adjective.

So, British expats in Spain and Chinese expats in Spain are likely to socialise in their specific group, but rarely if ever intersect. They are all immigrants in the target country (and especially when considered as a whole as everyone from "outside"), and they are all expats (but probably in defined cliques).

I'd say these clusters of people are living the "expat life", but equally there are many immigrants who don't particularly want to hang out with other expats, because they're not trying to recreate where they left in a new place, but are trying to assimilate to the new place. They themselves are still expats even if they don't socialise much with other expats, but wouldn't be living the expat life.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#879

Post by baranul »

stickfigure wrote: post #845
Dylan16807 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not what they did, they acted like people were already using that definition and started pulling out the wrong numbers. Also can you explain why "involuntary migrant" is fine but "involuntary immigrant" isn't? (I mean I'd probably default to stronger language than "involuntary" but let's stick with that for now.)

Don't feed trolls.

That multiple people are clarifying that the slaves weren't immigrants (along with giving references) or that others have a different opinion about something or terms used, is not trolling.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#880

Post by talon8635 »

atoav wrote: post #149
talon8635 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero knowledge on German politics. But I do wonder, if these same problems are plagues many (most) big cities (and even countries) in the west, including very liberal and high spending governments, how can we safely conclude it’s a conservative problem (or a liberal one)?

Well in this case it is a documented trail of defering needed maintenance with the argument of needing to safe money. I did not argue that this is a outcome that can only happen to conservative governments. In fact I am convinced it is a fundamental problem of how politics work: you elect politicians to government for a limited period, so they often try to push off costs for which the ultimate prize will be paid to t…

My state of California is crumbling from deferred maintenance in pretty much every realm—old houses, busted roads despite the gentlest weather, public schools with lead pipes, painfully loud rickety trains, public spaces converted into public dumping grounds and squatters quarters, empty reservoirs, power lines that fall and spark large fires many times every year, and on and on and on
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