Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#131

Post by transdev12 » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:47 PM UTC

overfeed wrote: post #90

Robdel12 wrote: post #70

OpenAI is about to get ROCKED on this. From this report, this looks open and shut. Apple has basically infinite money and incredible lawyers. Not sure what OpenAI can counter with unless they have clear, hard evidence this hasn’t been happening.

OpenAI also has infinite money, and the graph for money/lawyering gets clamped well below what OpenAI can afford. It's going to end most other corporate courtroom tangles: with an undisclosed settlement and a well-publicized partnership.

OpenAI really doesn’t have infinite money. They have a lot of money, sure, but it is being burned like crazy, we know this. It is widely known that they are deeply unprofitable.

Compare that with Apple, a company that throws off billions of cash every quarter. This isn’t a legit comparison.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#132

Post by saghm » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:48 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

The crucial part of why non-competes are gross is that they're trying to enforce what you do after someone stopped receiving anything from the past employer. If someone is helping competitors when still working somewhere, or actively taking stuff from their past employer after they've left, then yeah, of course that's dumb and should be punished. But there's no reason a non-compete clause is needed for that!

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#133

Post by solfox » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:49 PM UTC

Marciplan wrote: post #53

probably the real reason why Apple opted Gemini over ChatGPT

Pretty foolish of them to play so unethically only to lose such a big account and now gain an open-and-shut lawsuit that will seriously damage their ability to compete in hardware for a very long time.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#134

Post by saghm » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:50 PM UTC

TheJoeMan wrote: post #87

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

As a counterpoint, why should a “metal finishing technique” be proprietary? Lying to the vendor that Apple said it’s ok is obviously wrong, but an employee taking that knowledge in their head doesn’t seem wrong to me. We have moved past the age of indentured apprentices and the freemasons.

To me, the fraud is the issue. If the person actually has the knowledge to spec out the whole technique, then sure, they can ask for it. But if they just said "give me what you give Apple" or describes it in detail and the vendor says "no I only will give that when Apple says they're okay", I don't see anything wrong with that either.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#135

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:51 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #93

kbelder wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere I've ever worked, if I went to management and said "hey, I've got some files from my last job, if you want to see them," they would say "absolutely not, please get rid of them RIGHT NOW," and probably fire me. But, I don't work in Silicon Valley.

Companies don't get to be worth billions of dollars without doing something unethical.

It's people who hold these beliefs who commit these acts. They're so convinced everyone around them is depraved, usually–at least in part–through personal experience, that they don't stop to consider the alternative.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#136

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:52 PM UTC

dndnfbfn wrote: post #130

estearum wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah You can beat the system and be disobedient while still behaving ethically. In fact that's the very best time to beat the system and be disobedient.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#137

Post by throwatdem12311 » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:53 PM UTC

andrewinardeer wrote: post #8

This is going to be interesting. Only because both companies have access to billions and infinite lawyers.

Can you pay for lawyers with RAM, GPUs or IOUs for tokens?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#138

Post by UncleMeat » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:54 PM UTC

tehjoker wrote: post #91

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

Generally speaking, companies retaining a competitive advantage with each other is good for their investors but bad for the public. It's usually to the public's benefit for employees to share knowledge, it makes goods and services cheaper and more available.

If "eliminate all IP law" is your preference then that's fine but it isn't a reason to commit crimes while we have these laws.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#139

Post by throwyawayyyy » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:55 PM UTC

ErneX wrote: post #5

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

This isn’t the first time something like this happens and I always wonder how are these seemingly smart people earning good money so dumb.

Either people are being really, really silly (which cannot be discounted), or the potential reward is so high as to override whatever qualms a normal person must have. Is that it? Is this people looking at a solid career at Apple or sudden millions from OpenAI, and thinking the risk is worth it somehow? Or, more darkly, is it people thinking _this is my only chance and I have to take it_? Or is it trickle-down lawlessness?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#140

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 10, 2026, 11:56 PM UTC

apparent wrote: post #23

>In its lawsuit Friday, Apple accused Tang Tan, OpenAI’s chief hardware officer and a former Apple executive, of coaching his hires from Apple on how to evade Apple’s security processes for departing employees. The word "coaching" is very malleable, and could refer to perfectly legal conduct, or conduct that is illegal, unethical, or both. How would an OpenAI employee know what Apple's security processes for departin…

[deleted]