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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

9to5mac.com

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#121

Post by paxys »

ErneX wrote: post #5
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

This isn’t the first time something like this happens and I always wonder how are these seemingly smart people earning good money so dumb.

Intelligence is domain-specific. People who have put too many skill points in technical knowledge often have none left for common sense and street-smarts.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#122

Post by miroljub »

zzyzxd wrote: post #107
ErneX wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t the first time something like this happens and I always wonder how are these seemingly smart people earning good money so dumb.

Those people are designers. And they don't necessarily understand software, data, or security. When I explained to my non-technical friends about how they were being tracked by website cookies, it sounded like a sci fi story to them. But yes, it's dumb. I was more surprised by how they managed to keep using work devices after termination. This sounds to me like a failure of their manager to do their job to follow the…

You assume they have a standard exit process.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#123

Post by SoftTalker »

Marsymars wrote: post #114
estearum wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple paid to produce that knowledge? It's good that people can spend a lot of time and money developing new knowledge and then for some period of time they get to exclusively reap the rewards of doing so. Do you mind if I MITM all of your work output, your emails, your code, your messages, and attach my name to it and then receive your paychecks in exchange for my work?

> Because Apple paid to produce that knowledge? It's good that people can spend a lot of time and money developing new knowledge and then for some period of time they get to exclusively reap the rewards of doing so. You’re describing patents?

Trade secrets. A legally recognized thing, and legally protected.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#124

Post by Aurornis »

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information:

> Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maintained a relationship with Yu-Ting "Alyssa" Peng, an Apple employee who continued to give him updates on Apple's projects, vendor decisions, and engineering details. When Liu learned he still had access to Apple's systems, he texted Peng "LOL, I found out I can access the [network storage], so funny."

This is how you behave when you think you're so much smarter than everyone around you that consequences don't apply to you.

Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them and I wipe any access credentials or authenticator codes that might be on any of my devices. I can't imagine being so brazen that you'd keep the company laptop and then start using an exploit to download confidential information for your new employer.

Doing it at a the company that most aggressively enforces secrecy is even crazier.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#125

Post by Culonavirus »

jediknightluke wrote: post #32
andrewinardeer wrote: post #8

This is going to be interesting. Only because both companies have access to billions and infinite lawyers.

OpenAI has concepts of money.

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#126

Post by estearum »

Marsymars wrote: post #114
estearum wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple paid to produce that knowledge? It's good that people can spend a lot of time and money developing new knowledge and then for some period of time they get to exclusively reap the rewards of doing so. Do you mind if I MITM all of your work output, your emails, your code, your messages, and attach my name to it and then receive your paychecks in exchange for my work?

> Because Apple paid to produce that knowledge? It's good that people can spend a lot of time and money developing new knowledge and then for some period of time they get to exclusively reap the rewards of doing so. You’re describing patents?

I'm describing "intellectual property," patents being only one way to legally protect such property.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#129

Post by wpm »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #37
yugioh3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great artists steal ideas, not a painting off a gallery wall.

a "metal-finishing technique" _is_ an idea. joke

Yes, and if you analyze the finished metal and put in the work to reverse engineer it, fine, have at it. That's not even theft. If Apple really wanted to keep it completely secret forever, they can't sell it, so thats the risk they accept.

But thats very different than scheming to steal actual property, which these files are.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#130

Post by dndnfbfn »

estearum wrote: post #100
ryandrake wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture issue. From How to Apply to Y Combinator [1] by Paul Graham: "Please tell us about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage." > we’re not looking for the sort of obedient, middle-of-the-road people that big companies tend to hire. We’re looking for people who like to beat the system. 1: https://www.ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html

Nah You can beat the system and be disobedient while still behaving ethically. In fact that's the very best time to beat the system and be disobedient.

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