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The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

mwi.westpoint.edu

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Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#451

Post by marcus_holmes »

wildzzz wrote: post #412
marcus_holmes wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So far nobody has built a tank, plane, or ship that can run on batteries and while drone technology has continued to advance in many critical ways they don't bring the big bombs quite yet. Ukraine is proving that the "big bombs" are useless - fpv drones can and do take out tanks, planes and ships. They don't survive long enough to deliver the "big bombs". Russia is currently reduced to sending in unmechanised light…

Sure but neither side has a B-2 or F-35. Drones are great for blowing up a few conscripts or a parked plane but a stealth bomber carrying 80 JDAMs can level 5km^2.

Which is working so well against Iran, right?

Oh wait, no, the other thing.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#452

Post by lljk_kennedy »

zhdc1 wrote: post #432

Good article but, like a lot of stategic studies pieces, grossly underestimates what the American industrial base is capable of. 1. The US is second in the world, behind Ukraine, in military drone production. 2. The US is a close second to China in logistics + last mile drone production. 3. The US is still the only country with the proven ability to move mass anywhere in the world. None of this means that the US will…

"No-one can match out tririme fleet, or move men as quickly through the Mediterranean" - Athens circa 440 CE

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#454

Post by wartywhoa23 »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #365
wartywhoa23 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the question worth focusing all the available energy and enthusiasm that is always somewhere else, but never at the humankind's worst problem. I think the answer could arise from a widely growing understanding of a) the methods of mass manipulation. Without manipulation, or outright mass hypnosis, no dictator is possible; b) the whole structure of power, and the fact that there are numerous barriers to filter…

Where there are simians, there is war. The more primitive the society, the bloodier and more total the war is. I wish our problem were psychopaths in power, but the truth is we are a tribal and fearful species and war is in our genes. It's as certain as a sunrise as long as there are humans.

This is the goto excuse, or mantra if you will, deeply programmed into people by those who need cannon fodder to protect heaps of loot robbed from said fodder.

"We". "War is in our genes".

Start with "me". Do I need war? Do I want war?

Do I have something that differentiates me from a simian?

To bear a reasoning mind, and have a heart that is capable of love, and still to appeal to the animal foundation is a total betrayal of everything that makes you not just yet another animal.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#455

Post by ponector »

antihero wrote: post #437
ponector wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is exactly how russians are capturing Donbass: each sity they managed to capture for the last two years are total ruins.

Doesn’t Eastern Ukraine have more resources and more ethnic Russians?

Eastern Ukraine had more Ukrainians who had russian language as primary one, but they are not ethnic russians. Also this is the result of the ethnic cleansing and mass deportation of Ukrainian people russians did for the last two senturies.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#456

Post by WillPostForFood »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #102
anjel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with Ukraine, it's a David and Goliath kind of conflict and in both conflicts, the temptation for Goliath to escalate by leveraging scale is predictable, tempting and frought.

Iran is not David in this case. They’ve shown that their drone warfare is just a little bit under what the US military can provide. Remember that they destroyed a quarter of a trillion dollars radar installation. And the US has spent billions on munitions. The US can’t actually keep going in this war.

Without diminishing the huge cost Iran has been able to inflict on US radar, quarter of a trillion is off by more than two orders of magnitude, maybe three. There are 1-2 confirmed radar system confirmed hit, a couple more suspected hit or damaged. But that is going to be hundreds of millions in damage, nowhere close to 250 billion,

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#457

Post by zemvpferreira »

wartywhoa23 wrote: post #454
zemvpferreira wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where there are simians, there is war. The more primitive the society, the bloodier and more total the war is. I wish our problem were psychopaths in power, but the truth is we are a tribal and fearful species and war is in our genes. It's as certain as a sunrise as long as there are humans.

This is the goto excuse, or mantra if you will, deeply programmed into people by those who need cannon fodder to protect heaps of loot robbed from said fodder. "We". "War is in our genes". Start with "me". Do I need war? Do I want war? Do I have something that differentiates me from a simian? To bear a reasoning mind, and have a heart that is capable of love, and still to appeal to the animal foundation is a total be…

I don't want or need war, but I won't deny to having felt tribal impulses before. I won't deny culture and groups are different from individuals. Idealism is fine until it starts interfering with reality.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#458

Post by 3371 »

asdff wrote: post #157
bad_haircut72 wrote: post #6

When Russia invaded Ukraine, nobody (even the Ukranians) imagined that 5 years later they would have their own missiles hammering Russia 2500kms in the rear. Americans need to start accepting that a) the Iran war will also probably still be going on in 5 years and b) Iran will probably in a better place than they are now, strategically speaking.

People assumed Russia would press with their full might and that has just yet to ever happen. Why don't they carpet bomb all of the ukraine? Why not fire off a littany of missiles? Why not conscript the bulk of their manpower reserves and actually invade in earnest? Everyone assumed the war would be over in two weeks, because it really could have ended in two weeks if russia went full throttle early on. But there mus…

> Why don't they carpet bomb all of the ukraine?

In Chinese we call it "wash the ground with missiles", and many Chinese and Taiwanese say this constantly as a threat or concern. It's amusing that many people think this is a practical thing to happen, and keep bringing it up.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#459

Post by jojobas »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #6

When Russia invaded Ukraine, nobody (even the Ukranians) imagined that 5 years later they would have their own missiles hammering Russia 2500kms in the rear. Americans need to start accepting that a) the Iran war will also probably still be going on in 5 years and b) Iran will probably in a better place than they are now, strategically speaking.

Russian goals are vastly different from US'. US has no intent to incorporate Iran or fight out for each and every mountain village. US goals might not be easily achievable either but for completely different reasons. Iran is also unlikely to get 10% of the logistical support Ukraine has.

Re: The glass backbone: Why the Army's logistics will break in the next war

#460

Post by 8fingerlouie »

MyHonestOpinon wrote: post #160
malfist wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Iran war will also probably still be going on in 5 years The Russia/Ukraine war has a goal, to make Ukraine either part of Russia or a client state. What's the goal of the US/Iran war? So far it seems like the goal is to mostly return to the status quo prior to the war. I can't imagine that could continue 5 years because there's just not an objective. Of course, I could easily be mistaken.

The US had the power to start the war. The US doesn't have the power to stop the war.

It takes one party to start a war, but it takes (at least) two to end it.

The war ends when all involved parties agree that it ends, not because one party is tired of it.

The only way the US alone can end the war in Iran is to ensure complete surrender, and then stay put for 20 years like Iraq and Afghanistan, only to leave like a thief in the night and things reverts to what they were before, only with more local hate for the US than was already there (as most islamic states sees the US as the great devil).

I think most European nations learned their lesson in Iraq and Afghanistan. None of those were NATO operations btw. Article 5 was invoked for Afghanistan, but the NATO contribution was limited to a naval operation and patrolling of US airspace. NATO is a defensive treaty, not an aggressive one. The actual ground invasion of both Afghanistan and Iraq was done by a US led coalition of the willing, and when the US started the Iran war, most european leaders openly declared that this was not europes war.

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