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My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

andrewkelley.me

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Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#621

Post by deanCommie »

27183 wrote: post #320
orangedog wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to if you give a shit about the community you are leading, yes. You're not operating as a private figure in that role, everything you do affects the community and it is blind or selfish to act otherwise.

This is so deeply wrong . This person owes you nothing . You're accusing them of "selfishness" after they've given away thousands of hours of their time... Your entitlement is just breathtaking.

Look, I get where you're coming from, I do.

In the last decade, we've seen rampant abuses and exploitation of open source projects and of maintainers. So much individual good will and generous efforts wasted because of corporate malfeasanse.

AND YET. If you "open source" a project, if you actually invest in BUILDING a community, you then become a PART Of that community - with the benefits and obligations that come with it.

You don't want the obligations? Fine. But then you don't really get to keep participating in the community. And if you act like "This is MY community, I get to do whatever I want", people are free to shrug, and say "maybe i'll go find a different community".

Which is exactly how I see people reacting to Zig right now. They're seeing that an active member of this community (which, as you said, keeps insisting "he owes them nothing because the community wouldn't exist without them") treats people he doesn't like, and they think "Oof i don't want that to one day be me."

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#622

Post by dfunckt »

mathisfun123 wrote: post #432
orangedog wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This entire thread puts me out on devs. I stuns me that there are this many people who either excuse or cheer on being hateful. Wanting to use a project becaues the author was this rude....what? Just a complete lack of emotional intelligence. You do not treat people like this.

[flagged]

This is true to some extend, but you may confuse runaway technical arguments (Rust in Linux?) with spitting vitriol over somebody.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#624

Post by kamikazechaser »

0xpgm wrote: post #183
tuckwat wrote: post #101

This is unprofessional and embarrassing for Zig. I know very little about Jared but his article yesterday, which I read, seemed appreciative of Zig. I now learn he's donated significant chunks of money to them. This entire article is publicly and personally attacking him for choosing a different product. It's insane to me that Andrew thinks this post will somehow exonerate Zig when it really just makes them look chil…

How is it unprofessional when it is simply someone giving their honest personal opinion on an issue that involves something that is valuable to them, on their personal blog nonetheless. Is everyone a walking and talking brand now so that they have to always filter their words, walk on eggshells, hide behind corpo-speak so as to seem 'professional'? More honest discourse is required in today's world, not less. It seem…

The wanna cancel Andrew and Zig by extension for hot-takes.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#625

Post by antonvs »

27183 wrote: post #589
Shorn wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could make a similar point by saying something like "I don't like the message he's sending so I won't participate" Sooo.... "be more professional in your writing"? Why does this person owe you "professional writing" on their personal comment?

> Sooo.... "be more professional in your writing"? No, just more precise. It seems absurd to brand an entire community as "assholes" based on some disagreement with a blog post by one member. I suspect great GP didn't mean it that way, but it would help to have some clarification.

Why does this person owe you “clarification”?

You’re really just helping to confirm his diagnosis.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#626

Post by mlugg »

stock_toaster wrote: post #572
lerno wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One funny thing is that if you go on codeberg and want to submit a PR to Zig, you can't. Because Zig's too big for Codeberg, and you're over your free quota, so you can't push your update to your fork. Yes there are ways around it if you have patience, but what the heck!!

> Yes there are ways around it if you have patience, but what the heck!! https://forgejo.org/docs/latest/user/agit-support/

Worth noting that while it's absolutely unfortunate that we're hitting this Forgejo design flaw, AGit honestly is just a better workflow, and I (Zig core team member here, full push access to the upstream repo) have started using it for pretty much all of my PRs. There are a couple of small things I'd like to see improved about Forgejo's implementation of AGit, but IMO it fundamentally makes so much more sense than the two-step push-then-PR workflow (especially if you're an external contributor who would also need a first step of "fork the repo").

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#627

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

tptacek wrote: post #617
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that meme is dangerous precisely because the shallow interpretation is the opposite of the one the scene intends to convey. Draper sabotages Ginsburg because he's threatened by him. In the elevator Don is masking his insecurities, as he deeply fears Ginsburg's talent. His own creativity, and confidence, has been crumbling. It's all ego.

Draper sabotages Ginsburg because he couldn't possibly care less about Ginsburg and is irritated to be saving his feelings by pitching two different campaigns when he knows he has it in the bag. I know the Mad Men wiki says otherwise, but 51% of Mad Men wikipedians are wrong about this: Draper is being honest in the elevator. Ginsburg's tagline wins Jaguar! (Joan clears an obstacle to them winning it, but they still…

I have no idea what the wiki says but this is a wild take. It's a lie through and through, but Don is so smooth he convinced you in addition to himself.

Time for a rewatch I suppose.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#628

Post by rk06 »

>As soon as the Internet stops arguing in public about whether the rewrite was good or bad for Bun based on the language choice, I believe that concludes our interactions.

so, never? because with bun being as public and widely known as it is, the debate won't end

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#629

Post by mawadev »

mjr00 wrote: post #373
tuckwat wrote: post #101

This is unprofessional and embarrassing for Zig. I know very little about Jared but his article yesterday, which I read, seemed appreciative of Zig. I now learn he's donated significant chunks of money to them. This entire article is publicly and personally attacking him for choosing a different product. It's insane to me that Andrew thinks this post will somehow exonerate Zig when it really just makes them look chil…

> This is unprofessional and embarrassing for Zig. It is. It's also why Anthropic and Bun moved off Zig. Zig is effectively a one-man show, and that one man has been making increasingly erratic decisions. It's his project so it's well within his rights, of course. But when you're a ~trillion dollar company you don't want to get hit by a supply chain risk like this. For Anthropic, it's better to nip this in the bud ra…

I think the blog post was cringe, but the part with relieving a burden stuck with me. I don't think its acceptable to have trillion dollar companies or companies at all sit on your neck using your project in a way you don't like and subtly influencing its trajectory just because they want to make money. License back and forth, but it doesn't feel right to me personally. Its like the guy who wrote the stuff that is used for the intrusive Intel IME. Now pair that with the tasteless LLM and AI narratives and you got yourself into a big dilemma.

Let's say you make a language and try stuff out but its used by facebook and suddenly you find yourself in calls solving problems for them but you never really wanted to end up in this situation or work with people from such in environment. Meanwhile the compensation/donation does not match the value they are extracting from your work. Hard to say, I'm very mixed on this.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#630

Post by ladyanita22 »

ovao wrote: post #593
Jarred wrote: post #274

I have learned so much reading Andrew’s code and as I said in the original post: Bun would never have happened without Zig. > The post claims they were fuzzing their Zig code, while during our calls the whole Bun team told us that they were not fuzzing anything. This appears to be an outright fabrication. Fuzzilli integration: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/24826 Merged PRs fixing issues Fuzzilli found in Bun’s…

Note that Andrew's since removed the “outright fabrication” bit from his post. No indication of the edit itself though, which is a choice.

It is a choice indeed. Well worded.
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