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Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

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Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#131

Post by mekael »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #103
gruez wrote: post #9

As much as I like articles that tries to use economics or finance to explain stuff, the "options" analogy is a bit hamfisted. The article starts off by noting about how ambulance is an "option" for a rescue, but even though the analogy might vaguely work, it's not really needed to answer the question. That can be answered far more simply: "medicare and insurance companies pay them too little, so they have to charge e…

> As much as I like articles that tries to use economics or finance to explain stuff, the "options" analogy is a bit hamfisted Idk, my takeaway is ambulances look like a solid market for a subscription model. Ideally, one that taxpayers pay for. But also, potentially, as a private one that you can pay e.g. $50/month to know you won't be billed $12,000 by idiots.

At the end of the day doesnt that just end up being universal healthcare but with more steps?

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#132

Post by charcircuit »

Avicebron wrote: post #89
charcircuit wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is covered and you have the ability to pay someone to take on the risk of having to pay for an ambulance.

what happens to the people who don't pay someone to take that risk when they need an ambulance?

Then they pay for the ambulance.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#133

Post by somat »

jjk166 wrote: post #83
gruez wrote: post #9

As much as I like articles that tries to use economics or finance to explain stuff, the "options" analogy is a bit hamfisted. The article starts off by noting about how ambulance is an "option" for a rescue, but even though the analogy might vaguely work, it's not really needed to answer the question. That can be answered far more simply: "medicare and insurance companies pay them too little, so they have to charge e…

> The average ambulance transport costs $2,673 to provide I think this ignores the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Why does an ambulance transport cost thousands for the operator? This is a short trip in an automobile, essentially a fancy uber ride. At first one might say that's flippant - obviously ambulances are specialized vehicles, and you have paramedics, and they need to get to locations quickly, and so forth, b…

It may also be telling to figure out why no startup is offering $400 ambulance rides and dominating on volume.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#134

Post by cogman10 »

pclowes wrote: post #113
cogman10 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not the government’s job to “take care of” anybody. That is literally the only job of government. The entire reason we have a government is to serve the citizens in some fashion or another. Even for most libertarians, they'll view the government in having a role resolving disputes. That is "taking care of" citizens by resolving conflicts. Subsidizing farmers so citizens continue to have cheap and consistent a…

I think what I’m saying is being misinterpreted. I should have been more clear. Everybody’s definition of “taken care of” is different. The government needs to balance the interest of the public with the interest of the individual. It is not intended to “take care of “people regardless of their asks. Otherwise, what if I am only “taken care of” if I have a beachside penthouse in Malibu and also a pony? The government…

> Otherwise, what if I am only “taken care of” if I have a beachside penthouse in Malibu and also a pony?

That's a false equivalence.

We aren't talking about giving people penthouses. We are talking about providing EMS. Heck, I can even grant "degraded EMS" maybe we don't ensure an ambulance is stocked with the latest and greatest tech because you are rural. Maybe the ambulance is a hand-me-down from a larger city.

But it's not a huge ask to say that rural communities deserve at least some level of emergency health medicine. Less people means less health incidents. That's the primary reason why so many rural locations today are able to get by with volunteer EMS (Something my family participated in. Calls happened roughly once a month at most in my town of 300).

> The government is not taking care of people if it allows the average expenditure per person to eclipse the average tax revenue per person. The economics need to be roughly sustainable at the national state and even rural area level.

I agree, it's smart to make sure the government isn't over spending on frivolous things. I just don't think "EMS" is frivolous. Everyone might need it, it doesn't ultimately cost that much to provide (especially if it were actually ran by the government and not private entities), and it's services buy a lot of good will with citizens. Additionally, it creates economic output. Someone dying or getting a lifetime disability because EMS wasn't available is someone that's not adding to the economy.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#136

Post by mekael »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #37

There should be an "Uberlance" - discount emergency pickups by Uber, at Uber prices.

Years ago i slid down a bannister at a dance club, caught my foot, flipped over backwards, and landed on a barstool. Having grown up poor as dirt, i knew that calling an ambulance would be at least a grand if not double that. I called an uber to take me the 15 blocks to the hospital.

Total cost was 70 bucks (10 bucks for the uber, 60 for the er copay).

The number of people here in the US who use uber as an ambulance is waaay higher than you would think.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#137

Post by indoorfish »

mlsu wrote: post #107
jjk166 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average ambulance transport costs $2,673 to provide I think this ignores the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Why does an ambulance transport cost thousands for the operator? This is a short trip in an automobile, essentially a fancy uber ride. At first one might say that's flippant - obviously ambulances are specialized vehicles, and you have paramedics, and they need to get to locations quickly, and so forth, b…

Ah, but you forgot private equity, that's about $2473 of profit per ride that needs to be accounted for. This high cost is what we must pay to keep our economy dynamic and efficient.

IKON passes don't grow on trees you know.. Someone has to rent out in Aspen.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#138

Post by pasquinelli »

tbrake wrote: post #119
jjk166 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average ambulance transport costs $2,673 to provide I think this ignores the 400 pound gorilla in the room. Why does an ambulance transport cost thousands for the operator? This is a short trip in an automobile, essentially a fancy uber ride. At first one might say that's flippant - obviously ambulances are specialized vehicles, and you have paramedics, and they need to get to locations quickly, and so forth, b…

> This is a short trip in an automobile, essentially a fancy uber ride. We need a regulatory body that can fine people for making analogies this bad

i mean their job is transporting people.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#139

Post by cheesecakegood »

jasonjayr wrote: post #115
justonceokay wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s the cost of supplies used during transport. Also the cost of maintaining potential supplies like blood even if they go unused. EMTs may make $23 but they are also getting benefits and have other overhead, making their real hourly cost probably closer to $50/hr minimum. There’s insurance, which I bet is out the wazoo expensive for ambulance. Ambulances have to be maintained and I would guess have much more reg…

TIL getting an elevator tech to just come out to look at your building's elevator is about $1600. If it's an easy fix, that's all you need to pay. If it's not, it goes up significantly....

To be fair, if you pay the repairman, your elevator also goes up :)
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