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John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

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Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#251

Post by gbacon »

WarmWash wrote: post #216
atoav wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want people not to have out of spec tractors that is a regulation and oversight issue, not an issue of locking down tech. Right to repair argues the tech should not be locked down, it doesn't argue you should be free to break the law. You are also free to remove the handrails on a set of stairs using a simple wrench, but if a building inspector shows up or someone falls because of it there will likely be conse…

>Own a gun? No you don't unless you store it correctly and have documentation of ammunition spent etc. So we will have right to repair but it's only legal if you document all repairs, keep records of parts ordered, only use verified vendors for those parts....etc etc. Right to repair laws shouldn't be onerous, and people should be able to (illegally) remove emissions controls, and we should recognize that as a bad th…

This is essentially the situation in the general aviation market for certificated aircraft, and it sucks. Costs are triple or more compared to the experimental market. Finding a decent mechanic is a serious chore. Repairs take forever.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#252

Post by ryukoposting »

bigfudge wrote: post #133
acters wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest loss to them is the right to repair stuff. They will be still making it exceptionally difficult to repair their stuff, and might even dip into exotic materials to make cheaper parts fail more often, but this is a bigger loss to them in the long run. Unfortunately, I hate that they got away with such a low AF fine.

Can someone explain to me why any farmer buys JD? It seems like $1000 oil filters is something farmers would notice and talk about in that community?

I can't speak for the large-scale operations, but I'm close with several farmers working between 100 and 500 acres. They know about the repair nonsense, and they tsk-tsk about it, but Deere is deeply entrenched in their cultural identity and the repair shenanigans don't affect them directly.

For these guys, modern Deere hasn't broken the mirage because they all drive "old" tractors, anywhere between 20 and 60 years old. I put "old" in quotes because they don't consider those tractors to be old. To them, a tractor is a thing you own for life, care for dutifully, and hand down to your kid. Just like the house and the fields. 100? Now that's an old tractor!

If you're a boomer farmer, Pops probably had a Deere. And because he probably had a Deere, you probably have a Deere too, because you probably drive Pops's tractor. Brand loyalty takes on a more cultural air when it gets passed down through generations.

Also, some men just have a thing for Deere. You ever seen those pictures of some guy's house and every room is decked out floor to ceiling with Dale Earnhardt memorabilia? That's my grandfather. My buddy's grandfather? Same deal, but Deere instead of Dale.

As for the folks running the big operations with modern tractors, well I don't really know. I've never met any of them. But Deere has a massive network of licensed repair shops. Seriously, I can't tell you how many towns I've driven through around the Great Lakes that are nothing more than a gas station, a dollar store, a school, and a shop with a Deere logo hanging in the window.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#253

Post by Zancarius »

darksim905 wrote: post #211
srejk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate everything he stands for - he's on the right side of just about every issue. I just wish he could make more succinct and effective videos.

You really want more succinct videos than what he already makes? Although they may seem long in a modern day where people have the attention span of a gnat -- his videos are fantastic and to the point. He literally ignores a lot more complexities and drama surrounding a lot of issues. Does he ramble sometimes? Maybe, but the talks so fast at times that the video is over before I've even gotten half way through with m…

"An account of human suffering" (assuming I remember the approximate title) is one of his earlier videos that sticks out in my mind and one I'll never forget. It was a tongue-in-cheek nod to the fact board diagnostics for hardware that has obviously been abused by the end user is a tedious and often thankless process.

I learned a LOT from watching his videos, and I don't even do board repair! Psychology, business, the human condition...

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#254

Post by darknavi »

tzs wrote: post #99
jamienk wrote: post #73

"Right to repair" isn't some kind of little negotiated contract fiddling. A company can't agree to a 5-year right to repair. Right to repair is a normal freedom, like speech, like using everyday objects you buy or make, generally walking around, meeting people, etc. Don't let's get all twisted up here and start thinking some dumb-ass business plan is the starting point in our basic conceptualization of humanity.

> Right to repair is a normal freedom Right to try to repair is a normal freedom.

Right to watch five YouTube videos on how to fix my horrid soldering job.

I wouldn't trade it for the world though, we need more tinkering.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#255

Post by pchristensen »

spacedcowboy wrote: post #155
throw2ih020 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN audience prefers text to video; videos rarely do well here compared to other sites.

This. I never watch video posts. I can skim-read a text site in seconds to see if it's worth a real read. I can't do that with video, and there's always some ads in it, whether the author put them there or not. I hate ads. And it's not just HN either, video is a very poor substitute for a well written article. Video can augment a well-written article, but it can't replace it.

If you have YouTube Premium, you can use their Gemini AI to summarize videos. I've "consumed" tons more videos since I discovered it, since I can get a good idea from the summary if it's worth actually watching the video.

My overall minutes of YT have gone down, but I probably interacts with 2-3x more videos. Just like skimming on HN!

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#256

Post by pchristensen »

sneakymichael wrote: post #224
bombcar wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you get things like the ATP (I can't bring myself to say ATP podcast because La Brea Tar Pits and all that) where two hosts are fine at 1.5x and the third becomes a chipmunk. Maybe they can make Overcast have dynamic speed based on speaker.

Who of the three do you feel speaks much faster naturally?

Definitely Siracusa.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#257

Post by pc86 »

snypher wrote: post #18
mothballed wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you tell them how easy it makes it to bypass emissions restrictions. My tractor was shipped with a screw turned down to Opening up John Deere tractors for right to repair virtually assures they will ~all be doing emissions deletes. Part of their lock-down was profit seeking, but the other half is that different vendors had different ideas interpretations of the law about how locked down the system had to be to…

If we could get our operators to just run regen when they should, it wouldn't be an issue. They don't mind filling DEF and we don't mind paying for it.

Any argument that includes "they should just" isn't even worth typing or considering as a real policy. They won't just. Nobody will just.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#258

Post by mothballed »

ori_b wrote: post #28
mothballed wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a US company the vagueness of emissions law likely prevents a US company from hazarding doing it and instead locking down the repair of their power trains to ensure emission compliance. Korean companies get away with it because they don't give much a shit if they're banned from import, it can always be washed through another foreign company. John Deere can't try that sort of thing since being a household-na…

Do what? What is not happening today that you think would happen if people were given the right to repair? You pretty clearly said everyone is currently bypassing this, otherwise companies would not be putting in larger engines. Is that wrong?

>Do what? What is not happening today that you think would happen if people were given the right to repair?

What is happening today is that it's of greater difficulty to bypass emissions on repair-locked tractors like John Deere and very easy to do on tractors like mine (mostly imports).

>You pretty clearly said everyone is currently bypassing this, otherwise companies would not be putting in larger engines. Is that wrong?

"Everyone" is bypassing it on the repairable tractors. Once John Deere are repairable, they will do it on those too.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#259

Post by qingcharles »

Balgair wrote: post #113
maldev wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish he wasn’t such an ass. Had a never meet your heroes moment outside defcon a few years ago. Not a friendly person and went from big fan to disdain when I hear his name.

I think it's a trait with these types that makes them what they are to begin with. They don't just turn it on and off for the bad guys, they're like this all the time with everyone. Never meet your heroes is just great advice, same as it ever was.

I've met hundreds of celebs, and 99.9% of them are unbelievably nice and kind. The only two that have ever been gruff were Bill Shatner and Dean Stockwell, and honestly, they could have just been sick/tired/having a bad day.

I would say "meet your heroes"; most of them are probably going to be better than your expectations.

Re: John Deere owners will get the right to repair equipment under FTC settlement

#260

Post by silisili »

hobo123 wrote: post #144
silisili wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brand name/heritage, and not much competition. I think there are only two US based companies left in business.

My guess is there a few German or Japanese competitors in the market as well. And buying American is all well and good until you can get a better machine for less somewhere else.

Absolutely - Kubota is extremely popular as well. But there will always be that faction who doesn't consider it because of who owns it.
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