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My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

andrewkelley.me

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Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#131

Post by dezsiszabi »

fg137 wrote: post #87
asciimoo wrote: post #2

I was wrong to be upset this whole time that the rewrite would hurt Zig. This is one of those rare occasions when I’m glad I was wrong. Interesting insights.

I don't think Bun actually matters much, even for web development. For sure there is a lot of enthusiasm, but all the production systems I know continue to use Node.js and are not moving to Bun any time soon. In the "real world" not that many people care about it.

Exactly, it's some niche thing not a lot of people care about in my opinion. I certainly don't.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#133

Post by grahar64 »

dzonga wrote: post #60

articles like these are needed - if you've to call people out - do it. the tech industry's fake politeness has caused pain and confusion. & yeah - I had already stayed off Bun before the whole rewrite, but now more reasons.

I think people have read so much corporate PR posts they think that is a rule of how to post online.

This post is his personal blog, he is a human writing what he thinks.

If this was a tweet people would be fine with it, but it is a blog so he should make it corporate-y

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#134

Post by tuckwat »

lins1909 wrote: post #125
tuckwat wrote: post #101

This is unprofessional and embarrassing for Zig. I know very little about Jared but his article yesterday, which I read, seemed appreciative of Zig. I now learn he's donated significant chunks of money to them. This entire article is publicly and personally attacking him for choosing a different product. It's insane to me that Andrew thinks this post will somehow exonerate Zig when it really just makes them look chil…

It's kind of strange to not engage with any of the points made in the article. Unlike you, I don't think the post makes them look childish at all. I think it raises a lot of valid points and makes me want to use Zig more.

Do you have bias? I'm not saying I don't have some hidden bias but I have no skin in the game. I don't use Bun or Zig or plan to.

My reflection comes after reading Jarred's post yesterday, which I found interesting, and then Andrew's today.

I just pasted this article into an LLM to understand the tone and the summary is:

> The overall tone is deeply personal, cathartic, biting, and polemical, with flashes of humor and a deliberate attempt to soften the ending.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#135

Post by epestr »

embedding-shape wrote: post #62
whimsicalism wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think very easily and I have read examples of this. There are bits of this in the article, but the main thrust attempt to portray Jarred as a greedy asshole enamored with Thiel/VC thought is not about the project and quite clear reading the article. It’s entirely tactless and bitter imo

> main thrust attempt to portray Jarred as a greedy asshole enamored with Thiel/VC thought What made you get that takeaway from the article? I didn't get that feeling at all, mainly seems to be something like "Jarred does some good and some bad, personally I don't agree, still wish him well", but clearly some specific part in the article must have given you this impression, if so what part?

The "some good" part reads like it exists as a buffer between other parts which don't sound objective, but rather defensive and personally angry. > Fun fact: people talk to each other. The intention here seems to indicate that Jared could've never known that could happen. It doesn't sound like professional feedback and more how you talk to someone during after a road rage incident.

And the fact that immediately after no "personal criticism" he proceeds to call his behavior "fantasy fever dream." Sometimes presentation matters as much as factuality.

The lack of sources and citation for a pretty one-sided claim doesn't help either.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#136

Post by [deleted] »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #75
jdw64 wrote: post #3

I read the post and roughly summarized it as: 1.It felt uncomfortable that Bun was presented as a representative example of Zig. From the internal Zig perspective, it looked more like a bad example of how to use Zig. 2.It felt uncomfortable that they spoke as if Rust prevents things that could actually be handled by Zig's style guide. 3.I(OP,andrewkelly) don't think badly of Jarred as a person, but after signing a co…

Not accepting a PR because it was purely written by AI is like saying PRs will only be accepted if the developer used a standing desk for more than 75% of the time during the code's creation. In the end, as long as the code is not shit, who cares how the sausage was made!

[deleted]

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#137

Post by epestr »

whimsicalism wrote: post #94
embedding-shape wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> main thrust attempt to portray Jarred as a greedy asshole enamored with Thiel/VC thought What made you get that takeaway from the article? I didn't get that feeling at all, mainly seems to be something like "Jarred does some good and some bad, personally I don't agree, still wish him well", but clearly some specific part in the article must have given you this impression, if so what part?

> jumping head first into problems that he was not yet equipped to solve, leading to mediocre outcomes in terms of engineering > having graduated from the Thiel Fellowship school of thought rather than university, he was essentially groomed from a young age into uncritically embracing the Silicon Valley mindset, > this "beginner energy" started to hit differently for me. It's one thing to choose a poor work-life bala…

Even more comical when you realize he couldn't stop himself from immediately following "no personal criticisms of Jarred" with

> gets to live out his productivity fantasy fever dream, he's probably already super wealthy. He has minor tech celebrity status.

in the following paragraph.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#138

Post by androiddrew »

rvz wrote: post #71

This is quite an interesting read from Andrew's perspective. But one line tells me everything I needed to know. > The blog post is expertly written. It's almost like the marketing department of a trillion dollar company has a lot of money riding on this article. Even Andrew knew that this was going to be Anthropic's marketing opportunity for AI to rewrite Bun from Zig into Rust. This post from Jarred says it all. [0]…

Yeah 100% they were going to do this anyways.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#139

Post by simonw »

bramhaag wrote: post #95
cyber1 wrote: post #14

To me, this whole effort of rewriting Bun from Zig to Rust looks like a big marketing move. The question is: if Anthropic AI is really that powerful, why not just fix the bugs and give it the more ambitious task of redesigning the existing Bun Zig codebase in a way that eliminates not only the current bugs but also prevents similar ones from happening in the future?

"effort" is a big word to describe typing out a few prompts to create something with 5k+ open issues.

"Typing out a few prompts" does not match the process described in Jarred's article. https://bun.com/blog/bun-in-rust

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#140

Post by f311a »

hazn wrote: post #39

Despite stated otherwise in the post, this is a personal attack. Anyway, let's try to discuss something more technical: I predict Zig will lose steam, and in 2027, will lose relevance: 1) It's hardcore Anti-AI 2) It's moved to Codeberg 3) It doesn't have the momentum to sustain the disadvantages of these two decisions The project will in max 2 years make a blog post, not admitting to their mistakes, telling themselve…

They don't have a goal of becoming a popular language, though and will continue to work on it as long as there are donations. They don't care about being mainstream and there are niche companies who appreciate Zig and donate.
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