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FAANG Simulator

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Re: FAANG Simulator

#121

Post by nixon_why69 »

jambalaya8 wrote: post #103
dzonga wrote: post #48

I don't know if I should feel sad or laugh at the pain at the same time lol. what a wonderful way to reflect reality for a good population of devs. you can hack the game i.e real life 1. live in a cheaper location 2. do things that don't scale & do the ugly work that naturally extends your runway, you don't need to apply to YC remember the median Pay in the US - is 61800 based on ADP the largest payroll provider. so…

I remember taking pay cuts of 35-65% for a few jobs I thought sounded more cool or less stressful when I was younger, only to find out some of my coworkers were making far more at the same place. They placed me still at or above the median wage, and I learned a lot (I never vested, and stocks weren't a factor in the jobs). In my personal experience, the jobs I have taken which paid less treated me as cheaper and more…

Is it possible that the causation is the other way? FAANG doesn't pay well because its dispiriting and toxic, its toxic because it pays well. This attracts all sorts of behavior.

I mean, it paid well in the early-mid 2010s also and was way less toxic.

Re: FAANG Simulator

#122

Post by iboisvert »

shoo wrote: post #109

When thinking about years of work until financial independence, its worth understanding the impact that savings rate has - the fraction of post-tax income remaining to invest in growth assets after expenses. If you're not familiar with savings rate, here's a simple calculator to help build intuition. The assumptions of asset returns & portfolio required to sustain retirement are a bit optimistic, but it's directional…

FIRECalc https://firecalc.com/ is another planner with more knobs. It has models for decreasing spending with age.

Re: FAANG Simulator

#123

Post by cuttothechase »

dzonga wrote: post #48

I don't know if I should feel sad or laugh at the pain at the same time lol. what a wonderful way to reflect reality for a good population of devs. you can hack the game i.e real life 1. live in a cheaper location 2. do things that don't scale & do the ugly work that naturally extends your runway, you don't need to apply to YC remember the median Pay in the US - is 61800 based on ADP the largest payroll provider. so…

The funny thing is that this is not a linear relationship.

It is not like ah.. there is my 85K job or 150K job and now I will never get fired or laid off.,

Late stage capitalism will find its way to make it more efficient at 85K level or at 1.5M level. Pick your red/blue pill.

Re: FAANG Simulator

#124

Post by hirvi74 »

azinman2 wrote: post #53
dzonga wrote: post #48

I don't know if I should feel sad or laugh at the pain at the same time lol. what a wonderful way to reflect reality for a good population of devs. you can hack the game i.e real life 1. live in a cheaper location 2. do things that don't scale & do the ugly work that naturally extends your runway, you don't need to apply to YC remember the median Pay in the US - is 61800 based on ADP the largest payroll provider. so…

Unless you have a family, want to travel, want an ample retirement fund, have complex health issues, etc etc.

Not entirely true. I work in "boring" State government as a programmer. I constantly see juniors starting private industry jobs at close to what I make after being with my employer for 10 years straight.

However, money is not everything to me. While the salary is not truly impressive, my job has a lot of benefits. People sleep on these jobs while chasing MegaCorp clout which is cool and all, but I am just a redneck clever enough to write bad code. I don't want FAANG, and FAANG doesn't want me.

> Unless you have a family, want to travel

We have generous PTO, sick leave, bereavement leave, 6 weeks of paternity leave for mothers AND fathers, 16 holidays off, etc.. Plus, many offices are 100% remote (mine is 3/5 days a week).

> want an ample retirement fund

I have a Pension, 401k, and a 457(b) all through my employer. I am fortunate that the pension is also fully funded for over 30 years in advance. Plus, PTO rolls into sick time annual and sick time can be used to purchase service time, thus one can retire even faster than the typical 30 year timeframe.

> have complex health issues

We have great health insurance plans, and my office has been wonderful in dealing with people with very complex health issues. Way more than what I expect the private industry would do.

Guess how many people have been laid off from my office? ;)

Re: FAANG Simulator

#125

Post by hirvi74 »

20after4 wrote: post #118
dzonga wrote: post #48

I don't know if I should feel sad or laugh at the pain at the same time lol. what a wonderful way to reflect reality for a good population of devs. you can hack the game i.e real life 1. live in a cheaper location 2. do things that don't scale & do the ugly work that naturally extends your runway, you don't need to apply to YC remember the median Pay in the US - is 61800 based on ADP the largest payroll provider. so…

Cost of living has risen dramatically everywhere. Unless you live in a small town in a poor state like I do then 85K sounds pretty bad. That's barely above the poverty line at this point.

I do not make a ton more than that, and I live in the downtown area of the largest city in my southern state. I still am able to save about 30%-40% of my gross income every year, pay my bills, etc..

I think too many people just have poor spending habits (or children).

Re: FAANG Simulator

#126

Post by hirvi74 »

shoo wrote: post #109

When thinking about years of work until financial independence, its worth understanding the impact that savings rate has - the fraction of post-tax income remaining to invest in growth assets after expenses. If you're not familiar with savings rate, here's a simple calculator to help build intuition. The assumptions of asset returns & portfolio required to sustain retirement are a bit optimistic, but it's directional…

One thing I have wondered about these calculations: is one's annual income supposed to be inclusive of all remunerations? You know, things like employer matches in retirement accounts, health insurance contributions, etc.?

Re: FAANG Simulator

#127

Post by jakevoytko »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #121
jambalaya8 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember taking pay cuts of 35-65% for a few jobs I thought sounded more cool or less stressful when I was younger, only to find out some of my coworkers were making far more at the same place. They placed me still at or above the median wage, and I learned a lot (I never vested, and stocks weren't a factor in the jobs). In my personal experience, the jobs I have taken which paid less treated me as cheaper and more…

Is it possible that the causation is the other way? FAANG doesn't pay well because its dispiriting and toxic, its toxic because it pays well. This attracts all sorts of behavior. I mean, it paid well in the early-mid 2010s also and was way less toxic.

Out of curiosity, what has changed over time that has made it more toxic? I left Google in 2015.

It certainly had its share of toxic traits, but it was at the "what place doesn't?" level.

Re: FAANG Simulator

#128

Post by thejazzman »

OhSoHumble wrote: post #99
dzonga wrote: post #48

I don't know if I should feel sad or laugh at the pain at the same time lol. what a wonderful way to reflect reality for a good population of devs. you can hack the game i.e real life 1. live in a cheaper location 2. do things that don't scale & do the ugly work that naturally extends your runway, you don't need to apply to YC remember the median Pay in the US - is 61800 based on ADP the largest payroll provider. so…

It actually really hurt when I pulled up the page. It's why I'm trying to bootstrap my own software company off of my savings. I'm aiming for 85k (or there abouts) after a few years of earning nothing. But I can't help but feel like a failure because distribution and convincing people to use my software is extremely difficult. I don't want to go back to the tech industry but at the same time I don't know if I have it…

solidarity; i'm right there with you.

Re: FAANG Simulator

#129

Post by UncleOxidant »

dzonga wrote: post #48

I don't know if I should feel sad or laugh at the pain at the same time lol. what a wonderful way to reflect reality for a good population of devs. you can hack the game i.e real life 1. live in a cheaper location 2. do things that don't scale & do the ugly work that naturally extends your runway, you don't need to apply to YC remember the median Pay in the US - is 61800 based on ADP the largest payroll provider. so…

> you will never get laid off.

Please explain this assertion.

Re: FAANG Simulator

#130

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

jambalaya8 wrote: post #103
dzonga wrote: post #48

I don't know if I should feel sad or laugh at the pain at the same time lol. what a wonderful way to reflect reality for a good population of devs. you can hack the game i.e real life 1. live in a cheaper location 2. do things that don't scale & do the ugly work that naturally extends your runway, you don't need to apply to YC remember the median Pay in the US - is 61800 based on ADP the largest payroll provider. so…

I remember taking pay cuts of 35-65% for a few jobs I thought sounded more cool or less stressful when I was younger, only to find out some of my coworkers were making far more at the same place. They placed me still at or above the median wage, and I learned a lot (I never vested, and stocks weren't a factor in the jobs). In my personal experience, the jobs I have taken which paid less treated me as cheaper and more…

“ In my personal experience, the jobs I have taken which paid less treated me as cheaper and more disposable. ”

That’s my experience. The more I have made in my career, the better and with more respect I got treated. As freelance I did some projects with non profit “do gooders”. They didn’t pay well and treated people horribly. On the other hand, successful companies will treat you well and pay well.

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