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Chatto is now open source

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Re: Chatto is now open source

#151
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a Hyundai car whose name literally means "pussy" in Portuguese and Galician x) It's marketed as something else in those territories.

Hyundai Kona :D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Kona

Don't forget the famous Mitsubishi Pajero (wanker)

Re: Chatto is now open source

#152
post #91
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can also mean annoying. As a general recommnedation, before naming a project or company something, always search whether it means something bad in the top 10 most spoken languages. For portuguese/spanish, there is always a high chance of being a slang that is NSFW

There's a Hyundai car whose name literally means "pussy" in Portuguese and Galician x) It's marketed as something else in those territories.

And Toyota Venza which sound like "toilet seat" in... Japanese, of all languages...

Re: Chatto is now open source

#154
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that’s just snarky and not very nice. The guy has 30 years experience as a dev according to a sibling comment so it’s not as though it’s some vibe coded junk. Why do you believe a good dev can’t use AI to assist in writing great code?

I'm not interested supporting in anyone who is willing to build on stolen property just so that we can accelerate enshittification and damage the environment. When the AI companies pay artists for their training material, stop building gas pipelines directly to data centers, and work on putting UBI in place before they try to replace all white collar labour, it may be worth revisiting. There's a reason that believing…

> anyone who is willing to build on stolen property just so that we can accelerate enshittification and damage the environment

Others have made solid arguments(Stackoverflow, open weight models, and fully open source models) - but I encourage you to study the ecosystem post War II and the 1970's Silicon Valley, especially how the semiconductor companies "innovated".

The tiny little MOSFETs you're employing to read this are all built on stolen IP.

As someone famous said, good artists copy; great artists steal.

Re: Chatto is now open source

#155

A thought if you want to sell to companies, "with per-user keys that get shredded when a user decides to delete their account." You'll need soft delete, work messages belong to the employer and not the user.

Employers may not be the target audience.

I wouldn't know. With the post mentioning teams and slack I just got the feeling it was on the cards, so I thought it was worth posting that in case it hadn't occurred to them.

Re: Chatto is now open source

#156

So the UI is a Discord clone, I think that's worth mentioning. It's not a bad thing, quite the opposite: Discord nailed it in that regard. Now are the chats end-to-end-encrypted? It only says calls are, so that remains ambiguous. I believe that would be a major sell for current Discord users. Overall looks like a great app to try out.

What's the point of end-to-end encryption on a group chat where the entire group can decrypt it?

Discord users want end-to-end encryption to prevent Discord employees and outsiders from reading their chats. This doesn't have that risk, because the in-group runs the server.

Re: Chatto is now open source

#157
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not interested supporting in anyone who is willing to build on stolen property just so that we can accelerate enshittification and damage the environment. When the AI companies pay artists for their training material, stop building gas pipelines directly to data centers, and work on putting UBI in place before they try to replace all white collar labour, it may be worth revisiting. There's a reason that believing…

Would you say copying and finding solutions on Stackoverflow is building on stolen property? I'm no fan of AI companies, but I fail to see how people using it to build open-source software is a bad thing.

Are the solutions on stackoverflow licensed in a way that allows people to use them that way? Is this true for AI training data?

Re: Chatto is now open source

#158
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that’s just snarky and not very nice. The guy has 30 years experience as a dev according to a sibling comment so it’s not as though it’s some vibe coded junk. Why do you believe a good dev can’t use AI to assist in writing great code?

I'm not interested supporting in anyone who is willing to build on stolen property just so that we can accelerate enshittification and damage the environment. When the AI companies pay artists for their training material, stop building gas pipelines directly to data centers, and work on putting UBI in place before they try to replace all white collar labour, it may be worth revisiting. There's a reason that believing…

So we are at a stage where AGPL 3.0 is not enough and using AI assisted coding is considered evil?

Re: Chatto is now open source

#159
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want the open protocol to have network effects, not a proprietary company's product. Email worked out pretty well, while IRC failed for reasons that are probably correctable.

Open protocols are great. The software in question is OSS. But this software is not for expanding the audience, it's for limiting it, and their exposure. Much like Tailscale is not for extending your network with more nodes that can freely join, but for limiting it to a private subset you trust.

This project looks great and I wish them luck. I'm just lamenting the fact that we still haven't solved the really big problem with Slack-like chat apps.

The Tailscale analogy isn't quite right because there are no real network effects involved. Most of Tailscale's utility exists even if no one else uses it.

Slack is only useful if your friends, coworkers, or partners use it. Same with Discord, and even open source alternatives for the most part.

Re: Chatto is now open source

#160
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not interested supporting in anyone who is willing to build on stolen property just so that we can accelerate enshittification and damage the environment. When the AI companies pay artists for their training material, stop building gas pipelines directly to data centers, and work on putting UBI in place before they try to replace all white collar labour, it may be worth revisiting. There's a reason that believing…

How do you feel about open weight models, and fully open source models (all data, training scripts/recipies, and model weights all open source)?

I'm not aware of any advanced models with full training data available, let alone available with paid licenses for the training data.

The process of training and using them is also not likely to be any better than commercial models. 23% of Ireland's power is going to data centers, spreading that among less efficient hardware in less efficient setups is unlikely to be better, unless the models are so bad nobody uses them.

And I'm also not aware of anyone working on these models trying to reduce the social damage they are going to do.

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