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EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

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Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#111

Post by torginus »

m4rtink wrote: post #64
snapcaster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

games are about fun, if something only adds realism for no reason it's not good game design to add it

I still think it would be doable if done right. There are so many interesting elements of modern science and hard SF that could be included to introduce interesting game mechanics: - adding various types of radiators (solid, droplet, etc.), gloving when weapons fire or engines activate, shooting them off prevents system from running - planets on eccentric orbits with wildly varying surface conditions in mere days as…

From playing quite a bit of KSP, I'd say an issue is that realistic space travel consists of a lot of waiting to get to the right part of the orbit. You have time dilation for that in SP, but not in MP.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#112

Post by hparadiz »

tekla wrote: post #108
hparadiz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tactics like being able to have your fleet hiding behind a moon that happens to orbit into the exact right position at the right time is fun to me. Eve Online is already a spreadsheet simulator so I find it about as fun as watching paint dry. Anyway I don't think basic physics is about fun or not fun.

Claiming to appreciate tactics involving realistic orbital maneuvering but also hating spreadsheet simulators is an incredibly strange position. How does one want a realistic space game but also hate spreadsheets?

I didn't say I hate them. I said I don't find them fun.

Anyway I don't need a spreadsheet to know where a moon is gonna be in N time. A simple visual simulation I can whip up with AI in minutes would do the trick.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#113

Post by y1n0 »

torginus wrote: post #109

I have a cheeky idea - imagine you're a company (especially a games company, whose engine is a small part of the whole product). You want to cut dev costs by AI - problem is your 100k codebase is completely unknown to most LLMs. So you release all your code, and labs will gobble it up and train on it for free. So come a year maybe, suddenly ChatGPT or Claude will know the code like the back of its hand.

Corollary: get other people to spend their tokens on PRs

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#114

Post by sitzkrieg »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #24
sim04ful wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jokes aside apparently they've hired economist to keep the game's market's stable.

This was at least a decade ago, but the game's economy seems to be managed well enough. Cost of having stuff transported is still 1M / jump.

depends on size, location, contents, risk, a million other factors. people are not paying 1m/jump to get stuffed freightered around by jita lol

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#115

Post by hparadiz »

torginus wrote: post #111
m4rtink wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think it would be doable if done right. There are so many interesting elements of modern science and hard SF that could be included to introduce interesting game mechanics: - adding various types of radiators (solid, droplet, etc.), gloving when weapons fire or engines activate, shooting them off prevents system from running - planets on eccentric orbits with wildly varying surface conditions in mere days as…

From playing quite a bit of KSP, I'd say an issue is that realistic space travel consists of a lot of waiting to get to the right part of the orbit. You have time dilation for that in SP, but not in MP.

This thread is going off the rails with taking the realism aspect of what I said too literally. I'm not saying remove FTL from the game. I'm saying having the map change ....very slowly. It would make things more interesting.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#116

Post by WorldMaker »

colkassad wrote: post #45
cassianoleal wrote: post #10

I've wanted to try out EVE Online for a while now. Never found the time, and it seems to be a bit of a time sink. Since I have no idea if I'm actually going to enjoy it or not, it never took priority. These kinds of news make me want to find the time. Good job!

I bought the game when it first came out (2003? Boxed, from Target) and played with an online friend for a while. We mostly mined and we didn't really have a corporation, it was just the two of us. There wasn't much else to do at the time. At one point I fell asleep at my keyboard during a mining op. Gave up soon after. In 2015 a coworker talked me into trying it again. We joined a small corporation, swore fealty to…

I watched a couple battles at the most time dilation over the shoulders of college friends. They would have entire days of needing having EVE open on their laptop through every class and that gave me enough of an understanding to realize I probably wouldn't enjoy that.

I got a lot out of Empires of Eve which tells a lot of the big stories of Eve in a very approachable multiple volumes of history books: https://www.empiresofeve.com/

The author put so much amazing work into those, including interviewing people that were there for many of those battles and compiling great visualizations to help make the battles easier to read.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#118

Post by swiftcoder »

ManBeardPc wrote: post #28
tjpnz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this unique to Stackless Python?

Don‘t know any other runtimes that have that by default. Probably kind of possible in Erlang or so by transferring the state, but stopping and moving a green thread in the middle of execution I’ve not seen elsewhere.

It used to be popular to do this in Scala (with Akka). You serialise a LocalTaskRef and send it across the network, resume it on another host

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#119

Post by adamrezich »

eminence32 wrote: post #106
adamrezich wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got way into Prosperous Universe for a few months, a few years back—it was fun for awhile but the pace at which new features were being added to the game was (and still seems to be) absolutely glacial, given what the game is. Really fun ideas in there, though.

There's been some new features in the past few years. But you're right that the general pace of new features is slow. There's only about 0.8 developers working on the game. However, if you're the type of person that likes to work on spreadsheets to calculate profit margins and market trends, Prosperous Universe is worth checking out.

One thing I didn't like about it (and briefly experimented with, in a prototype for my own game in a similar vein), was, much like EVE, it's called a “spreadsheet game”, but there's no spreadsheets in the game, or any sort of API bridge that makes doing stuff with the game in an external spreadsheet environment easier. I understand that this may just be part of the appeal of these sorts of games for many people—reading through stat blocks and wiki pages to figure out what numbers and what formulas need to go where to build the Ultimate Spreadsheet for your purposes (though in the end doesn't everyone just use existing Ultimate Spreadsheets created by others, or at least use them as reference?). And trust me, I did have a lot of fun building my Google Sheets infrastructure to coordinate business and production between myself and the three friends I got to (briefly) play Prosperous Universe with me. Also, don't get me wrong, I also enjoyed the subsequent rabbit-hole of learning how spreadsheet implementations actually work, including historical alternative spreadsheet implementations that had a lot of cool ideas like Lotus Improv [0]. But, in the end, I just wasn't having enough fun with Prosperous Universe to keep playing after awhile.

[0] This video is worth watching the opening few minutes of just for the vibes alone (trust me) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgGmKD87U3M

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#120

Post by progval »

adamrezich wrote: post #119
eminence32 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been some new features in the past few years. But you're right that the general pace of new features is slow. There's only about 0.8 developers working on the game. However, if you're the type of person that likes to work on spreadsheets to calculate profit margins and market trends, Prosperous Universe is worth checking out.

One thing I didn't like about it (and briefly experimented with, in a prototype for my own game in a similar vein), was, much like EVE, it's called a “spreadsheet game”, but there's no spreadsheets in the game , or any sort of API bridge that makes doing stuff with the game in an external spreadsheet environment easier. I understand that this may just be part of the appeal of these sorts of games for many people—read…

There is a third-party API now: https://doc.fnar.net/ , which collects data through a browser extension that scraps the traffic. This kind of extension is blessed by the devs as long as it does not automate actions.
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