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EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

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Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#101

Post by zer00eyz »

colkassad wrote: post #45
cassianoleal wrote: post #10

I've wanted to try out EVE Online for a while now. Never found the time, and it seems to be a bit of a time sink. Since I have no idea if I'm actually going to enjoy it or not, it never took priority. These kinds of news make me want to find the time. Good job!

I bought the game when it first came out (2003? Boxed, from Target) and played with an online friend for a while. We mostly mined and we didn't really have a corporation, it was just the two of us. There wasn't much else to do at the time. At one point I fell asleep at my keyboard during a mining op. Gave up soon after. In 2015 a coworker talked me into trying it again. We joined a small corporation, swore fealty to…

> However, the most fun I had was joining 100+ ship bomber fleets

Bombers Bar!

In a twist of fate, my corp found one of their fleets sitting in wh space waiting on their scouts...

We did the only appropriate thing and bombed them.

I think I giggled for about 3 hours after that, and recalling the story brought a smile to my face.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#102

Post by hparadiz »

tekla wrote: post #97
snapcaster wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how would it impact the fun of the game if they weren't?

Because fairly few players want to update space coordinates of hundreds of objects as a daily chore

You would not need to update any bookmarks. They should be using a coordinate system based on a relative object. Existing bookmarks are already technically relative the largest gravity well. New bookmarks would simply be based on whatever you want like any object. Absolutely no reason to overcomplicate it. Dunno why you're assuming you'd need to update anything.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#103

Post by 0xffff2 »

adrian17 wrote: post #15
lyu07282 wrote: post #11

Seems like a huge chunk is missing there, these mostly seem to me like a bunch of smaller reusable components with nothing really tying it together.

Makes sense, they probably don’t want to leak _the_ secret sauce driving the game itself. I saw some eve-specific logic in Destiny repo, like warp enter condition and warp velocity math, or entity visibility between grids. (Also, it’s full of std::(unordered_)map/set. Surprised they didn’t try squeeze some more perf there.)

If there was ever a game where the secret sauce doesn't have anything at all to do with the code, Eve has got to be it. They could probably release every single thing including all of the assets, complete buildable client and server code, etc and I doubt it would hurt the Eve at all.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#104

Post by snapcaster »

hparadiz wrote: post #102
tekla wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because fairly few players want to update space coordinates of hundreds of objects as a daily chore

You would not need to update any bookmarks. They should be using a coordinate system based on a relative object. Existing bookmarks are already technically relative the largest gravity well. New bookmarks would simply be based on whatever you want like any object. Absolutely no reason to overcomplicate it. Dunno why you're assuming you'd need to update anything.

at no point are you justifying why this would be FUN. it's like you don't even understand what a game is supposed to be

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#105

Post by hparadiz »

snapcaster wrote: post #104
hparadiz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would not need to update any bookmarks. They should be using a coordinate system based on a relative object. Existing bookmarks are already technically relative the largest gravity well. New bookmarks would simply be based on whatever you want like any object. Absolutely no reason to overcomplicate it. Dunno why you're assuming you'd need to update anything.

at no point are you justifying why this would be FUN. it's like you don't even understand what a game is supposed to be

Tactics like being able to have your fleet hiding behind a moon that happens to orbit into the exact right position at the right time is fun to me. Eve Online is already a spreadsheet simulator so I find it about as fun as watching paint dry. Anyway I don't think basic physics is about fun or not fun.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#106

Post by eminence32 »

adamrezich wrote: post #61
axus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://prosperousuniverse.com is closer, but still not actually a spreadsheet. "This is EVE Online for people who think the 3D spaceships part of EVE is time wasted away from their spreadsheets. "

I got way into Prosperous Universe for a few months, a few years back—it was fun for awhile but the pace at which new features were being added to the game was (and still seems to be) absolutely glacial, given what the game is. Really fun ideas in there, though.

There's been some new features in the past few years. But you're right that the general pace of new features is slow. There's only about 0.8 developers working on the game.

However, if you're the type of person that likes to work on spreadsheets to calculate profit margins and market trends, Prosperous Universe is worth checking out.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#107

Post by tekla »

hparadiz wrote: post #102
tekla wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because fairly few players want to update space coordinates of hundreds of objects as a daily chore

You would not need to update any bookmarks. They should be using a coordinate system based on a relative object. Existing bookmarks are already technically relative the largest gravity well. New bookmarks would simply be based on whatever you want like any object. Absolutely no reason to overcomplicate it. Dunno why you're assuming you'd need to update anything.

So you've never played the game.

Ok, lets try one example, the game has a mechanic where a station has a docking port where all ships exit oriented in a single direction. Many pilots have bookmarks that allow them warp very quickly away because turning around is slow so the bookmark is oriented straight directly away from the exit. How does one deal with that in a solar system if we assume even minimal orbital simulations?. It has 9 planets 33 moons, and only the dumb players warp directly to any particular planet or moon because of course everyone expects that, so they place them in random positions in space.

Are you able to do n-body math in your head?

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#108

Post by tekla »

hparadiz wrote: post #105
snapcaster wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at no point are you justifying why this would be FUN. it's like you don't even understand what a game is supposed to be

Tactics like being able to have your fleet hiding behind a moon that happens to orbit into the exact right position at the right time is fun to me. Eve Online is already a spreadsheet simulator so I find it about as fun as watching paint dry. Anyway I don't think basic physics is about fun or not fun.

Claiming to appreciate tactics involving realistic orbital maneuvering but also hating spreadsheet simulators is an incredibly strange position.

How does one want a realistic space game but also hate spreadsheets?

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#109

Post by torginus »

I have a cheeky idea - imagine you're a company (especially a games company, whose engine is a small part of the whole product). You want to cut dev costs by AI - problem is your 100k codebase is completely unknown to most LLMs. So you release all your code, and labs will gobble it up and train on it for free.

So come a year maybe, suddenly ChatGPT or Claude will know the code like the back of its hand.

Re: EVE Online's Carbon engine is now open source: Fenris Creations explains why

#110

Post by hparadiz »

tekla wrote: post #107
hparadiz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would not need to update any bookmarks. They should be using a coordinate system based on a relative object. Existing bookmarks are already technically relative the largest gravity well. New bookmarks would simply be based on whatever you want like any object. Absolutely no reason to overcomplicate it. Dunno why you're assuming you'd need to update anything.

So you've never played the game. Ok, lets try one example, the game has a mechanic where a station has a docking port where all ships exit oriented in a single direction. Many pilots have bookmarks that allow them warp very quickly away because turning around is slow so the bookmark is oriented straight directly away from the exit. How does one deal with that in a solar system if we assume even minimal orbital simula…

I played it for years. Shaking my head at this silliness. You just set the bookmark to a 50 meters off the side of whatever station and then the position of the station is basic orbital algebra that takes almost no CPU to calculate. It's dumb you can't just activate the warp to immediately activate for one second in whatever direction. Another reason I stopped playing. Irl you'd warp away in any direction if you're about to get blasted. You wouldn't be wasting time aligning to some random bookmark. This is why I can't take Eve online seriously. Like you actually think that a 25 year old engine is the best design ever for some reason.
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