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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#891

Post by m463 »

FeloniousHam wrote: post #872
m463 wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> New cars are UX nightmares. It's amazing that china might be the one stepping up and regulating sanity by returning good turn signals and gear selectors: https://www.notateslaapp.com//news/3593/tesla-likely-to-make... (on some models tesla has turn signals as buttons on the wheel/yoke and gear selection on the ...touchscreen... yikes)

My Y has the stalk, but the touchscreen gear selection is no issue. (Ignoring the fact that I rarely manually drive the car) I only touch the screen to put it in gear once, maybe twice on a drive, and I'm stopped in any case. Add in the fact that car will automatically put the car in the right "gear" 80% of the time based on environment (curbs, walls, etc.), it's even less important how the gear selected. Getting int…

I have to disagree. There are a few situations where it is dangerous.

- anything involving a quick 3-point turn. Or making a u-turn and not making it and having to back up a bit. (don't know if the car can guess right)

- creeping out to make a turn when poor visibility and having to quickly back up out of the way of something. (the car cannot guess here)

This stuff requires quick maneuvers and situational awareness. With a stalk this is all intuitively done keeping your eyes on the road and setting the direction. looking at a touchscreen or relying on the UI guess in the middle of all this is bad news.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#893

Post by randerson »

dvratil wrote: post #827

I sometimes wonder how these systems are being tested on the road and whether there's any feedback from the test drivers, or what kind of morons are there saying "this is completely fine, exactly like intended" when they read the feedback... My car has adaptive cruise control and will automatically adjust speed based on speed limit signs. I was on a highway at 130km/h and the car read a 60km/h speed limit sign that w…

My car (from VW Group) came with Active Lane Keep. It detects when you're drifting out of your lane and steers you back into it. Sounds great in theory.

Except that in the US, if you're cruising in the right lane then every time there's an exit it will actively steer you towards the concrete median between the lane and the exit. I don't understand how this feature was signed off on. The risks outweigh the benefits, in my opinion.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#894

Post by frereubu »

weinzierl wrote: post #826
frereubu wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, being constantly warned that I was speeding in rural areas where the car missed a speed limit sign caused me to start ignoring the speeding alarm within a few hours of driving the car. A lot of these features seem to assume that you're driving on a multi-lane motorway with well-marked lanes. I'm constantly being nudged by my ID.3 one way or another on rural roads. You can turn it off, but it turns itself back…

"caused me to start ignoring the speeding alarm within" Not sure if this has ever been implemented but I know from my time in automotive that there was the idea to exchange driving data with the insurer. If this becomes reality ignoring speed limits could increase your insurance premiums.

The issue is that currently it often gets those speed limits wrong - as one of the parent comments said, when using adaptive cruise control I would often find the car slowing down from 70 to 50 in the middle of the motorway which is really dangerous. Thankfully you're able to turn off that part of ACC and it stays off, but it's on by default.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#895

Post by commiepatrol »

We were just in Sicily for vacation and got a new BYD for rent. At first I was excited, coming from US I never tried a Chinese car and wanted to check it out. Excitement was quickly replaced with annoyance, that thing would beep for every damn reason. "keep eyes on road", "you are tired, consider taking a break", etc. Then all the damn safety features that a couple of times almost caused me to slam into another car. After a couple of days, I blocked the camera monitoring me and then would spend the first minute after getting in the car turning off all these "helpers", luckily most of them I could still disable. Camera couldn't be disabled in settings but just covering it up worked well. I thought about getting scotch tape but never got around to it.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#896

Post by queenkjuul »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

My 2016 corolla is very low-tech, but new enough to have Bluetooth and a backup camera, so everything i want. With any luck it'll outlive me.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#897

Post by psd1 »

silon42 wrote: post #836
Tade0 wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy I wasn't able to activate cruise control in the Karoq that I rented some time ago. VAG interfaces were always confusing to me and this behaviour would be more so. I see signs recognized like that all the time, so use satnav as my reference. Unfortunately if it's not up to date (mine hasn't been for years now), it will suggest speeds which have nothing to do with reality.

I wonder if I should install a popup 30 sign on a rear window for tailgaters in the future.

Good thinking, but try a mirror. The majority of primate species don't recognise their own reflection, and the threat signals they display make them back off.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#898

Post by jcsager »

tuetuopay wrote: post #720
mort96 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO most features are annoying and contribute to alarm fatigue and driver irritation, but are not directly dangerous. Lane keep assist though? I often drive on narrow country roads barely wide enough for two cars, with a white line on each side but no center line. To avoid large oncoming cars, I need to drive on the white line to my right. When I do, lane keep assist activates motors in my steering wheel which try to…

I almost slammed bicycles in Paris on a few occasions because of that crap. Shift a bit to the left to overtake them, get lane assist slam me back right. Thankfully those were close calls, but only thanks to the cyclist being used to traffic in Paris and having good reflexes. Any dangerous machine (like a car) must not do anything unexpected out of the driver's control. A lane assist that resists the wheel when tryin…

The lane asist totally annoyed me in my replacement car (2022 VW Golf) -jerking the steering around when it felt like it. I eventually bought a OBD2 dongle with associated app and managed to change the setting to 'remember last setting'. I recently rented a Renault Clio in France and that was always beeping at me about the speed limit. I was very grateful to the rental lady for pointing out how to disable the lane assist when starting the car!

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#899

Post by yomismoaqui »

psd1 wrote: post #897
silon42 wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if I should install a popup 30 sign on a rear window for tailgaters in the future.

Good thinking, but try a mirror. The majority of primate species don't recognise their own reflection, and the threat signals they display make them back off.

But then you have the problem of cleaning the feces from that mirror.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#900

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

WalterBright wrote: post #739
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese appliances play unique tunes in order to avoid beep confusion and reduce user annoyance. A tune is also more easily distinguished from voice if you don't speak the language. Western appliances have slowly started doing the same. ( https://www.gearpatrol.com/home/a45038903/singing-appliances... )

I don't want tunes. I want a voice. It is not any harder to learn 3 Japanese words than 3 random tunes. You don't have to learn Japanese. It's 3 words. It's the same thing as those stupid icons on buttons. The rationale is that some pre-contact tribesman will have a car and not know English. Well, he isn't going to know what the ancient Mesopotamian oil lamp icon is, either. And learning 3 English words is not a trag…

Many Japanese appliances actually do speak, but you'd probably have a hard time troubleshooting them.

One day the normal sounds you're used to don't happen, and instead you hear "Kyūshi torei de kami ga tsumatte imasu." So you try to find a manual to understand what it means, and the manual has a Japanese section ("給紙トレイで紙が詰まっています。") and an English section ("The paper loader is jammed."). How do you know that the sound you heard ("Kyūshi torei de kami ga tsumatte imasu") means "The paper loader is jammed" unless you already read and speak Japanese? One way to figure it out would be... icons.

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