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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#781

Post by prepend »

peterlk wrote: post #59
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Over Christmas, I spent several minutes trying to debug my beeping dashboard - it only seemed to happen sometimes while driving, so stopping didn’t let me figure it out. Eventually I discovered that it was beeping at me because my eyes weren’t on the road enough. Of course, figuring that out required me to take my eyes off the road to figure out which blinking signal was associated with this particular alarm. Also, b…

I wonder if these things are designed by people who do not drive. So they just implement to spec without thinking through whether the change produces the desired impact.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#782

Post by dominicrose »

Vasbarlog wrote: post #748
tuetuopay wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost slammed bicycles in Paris on a few occasions because of that crap. Shift a bit to the left to overtake them, get lane assist slam me back right. Thankfully those were close calls, but only thanks to the cyclist being used to traffic in Paris and having good reflexes. Any dangerous machine (like a car) must not do anything unexpected out of the driver's control. A lane assist that resists the wheel when tryin…

In all fairness, you should have put your left blinkers on while overtaking the cyclist, and that would have disabled the lane assist.

My car (EU, 2018) makes a noise when I cross a line without using the blinkers but it doesn't actually do anything.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#783

Post by prepend »

moffkalast wrote: post #288
peterlk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over Christmas, I spent several minutes trying to debug my beeping dashboard - it only seemed to happen sometimes while driving, so stopping didn’t let me figure it out. Eventually I discovered that it was beeping at me because my eyes weren’t on the road enough. Of course, figuring that out required me to take my eyes off the road to figure out which blinking signal was associated with this particular alarm. Also, b…

Driving4answers had a similar rant recently about the 2024 Prius, where there's an always-on warning beep every time you enter an intersection, which intrusively pulls away your attention in the exact moment when you need to be focusing on the road the most. I'll be surprised if it doesn't cause someone to die in the coming years. Laws for drivers written by people with chauffeurs.

I had a prius and every time I started it up, it would display a big warning prompt that blocked out the rear view camera. So you had to tap ok before backing up. Every time.

My current car shows this once per driver. I always thought toyota engineers were stupid for designing such a system.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#784

Post by nizbit »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #32
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Don't rule out another Cash for Clunkers. The 2009 program destroyed 1 in 300 cars on the road. The next one could be bigger. Also, 3 in 4 cars on the road today are now in states requiring emissions tests for your annual registration, which can pose a significant (and growing, as standards improve) obstacle for older cars.

Nah you pay a guy and you get your inspection sticker. This has always been the way.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#785

Post by crizzlenizzle »

cptskippy wrote: post #515
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

> looking at you, Volkswagen I have a new Volkswagen and there's an annoying amount of arrogance behind the technology decisions in the vehicle that really sour the experience. Perhaps the most annoying is that many notifications like "you can't do that while driving" are toast style notifications that disappear before you can notice or read them. It has 360 degree cameras but it gets to decide when you can activate…

I rented a Volkswagen a few months ago and yep, that checks out.

Also it was the first time in my life I had to search online how to reset a car entertainment system, because the screen suddenly didn’t work anymore.

A friend of mine bought a new VW a few years ago. He was so excited about that app it came with alerting him about unlocked doors, open trunk, open window, etc. Well, 100% false alert rate.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#786

Post by tuetuopay »

Vasbarlog wrote: post #748
tuetuopay wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost slammed bicycles in Paris on a few occasions because of that crap. Shift a bit to the left to overtake them, get lane assist slam me back right. Thankfully those were close calls, but only thanks to the cyclist being used to traffic in Paris and having good reflexes. Any dangerous machine (like a car) must not do anything unexpected out of the driver's control. A lane assist that resists the wheel when tryin…

In all fairness, you should have put your left blinkers on while overtaking the cyclist, and that would have disabled the lane assist.

I agree, and I don't remember whether I had the blinker. I, however, also respectfully disagree as in all fairness we should drive 100% perfectly 100% of the time, but we're humans. Expecting 100% driving all the times is the worst as it puts strain on the driver (I say that as someone that's pretty strict on blinkers).

What is special is one time it was a one way lane next to the tram with a concrete stub down. I wouldn't be surprised if the anti-collision kicked in and applied lane assist even with the blinker.

At any rate, the principle of least surprise still applies: heavy machinery must not jerk unexpectedly to the side. Never ever ever.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#787

Post by 72deluxe »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

I have a 2016 Beetle and a 2014 Mini Countryman and neither have these stupid features, thankfully! Keeping them for as long as I possibly can! In fact, my Beetle doesn't properly support Android Auto so I can't ever plug my phone into it (and the Mini only does bluetooth audio + playlists/song info for my wife's iphone integration), and my Beetle has a button on the steering wheel that I have to pay VW to use (no thanks). So I can concentrate on driving.

I also have a 1972 Beetle which has zero infotainment nonsense to distract me (the engine is deafening anyway), where you actually concentrate on driving.

It seems all this modern nonsense to warn drivers is because they've stuffed the car cockpit with all manner of distractions and giant screens, or non-tactile interfaces that you have to look at instead of feeling, thereby reducing concentration on actually driving. Rather than making new methods to ensure someone is concentrating, just reduce the amount of screens in the cockpit! My sister-in-law's Tesla is horrendous. She can't easily change the temperature whilst driving. There's a reason the space shuttle and airplanes have actual switches to change settings...

Keeping these cars for as long as I possibly can. I went around Iceland in a Fiat van (a "camper", tiny thing to sleep in) and the week was ruined with the incessant beeping of the car as it moved from speed limit to speed limit. I know the speed limits were changing because there were signs in the road, but instead I had to constantly look at the dashboard to try to find out why the stupid thing was beeping, which I presume was the same tone as any other error, thereby masking any real problem. Absolute garbage.

Incidentally, the Fiat also had that annoying "lane assist" feature which wobbles the steering wheel but it did it all the time when there were no lanes (unpaved roads etc) and it felt IDENTICAL to the car skidding to my "untrained"/"used-to-a-proper-car" hands, since the motion of the steering wheel versus car direction didn't match for a split second, and there was no real connection to the rack/pinion steering mechanism. I felt like a passenger even as the driver. Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#788

Post by codedokode »

kybernetyk wrote: post #660
phoronixrly wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's working on making driving a car unbearable has my vote! My bicycle has a single chime and it's manually operated.

Let me guess: You get your groceries delivered by some underpaid sucker? While I enjoy biking it's impractical many times (if you don't live a sheltered life with people doing all the annoying stuff for you). We have those inner city bike extremists here, too. There's proposals like banning all motorized traffic from the city because you "can walk to your bakery duh". But they never ask themselves how the baker gets…

> But they never ask themselves how the baker gets all his materials to the bakery.

You can allow transport for business (speed-limited to 30 km/h or ~20 mph) and ban individual's cars. There are busses, trams and subway and there is no need to have a car.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#790

Post by itake »

sod wrote: post #750

It boggles my mind that some people are more concerned how much fun driving a car is supposed to be vs 60 people dying in the EU in car accidents every day. If 60 people died because an airplane falls of the sky every day we wouldn't shrugg that off either, wouldn't we? And a voice that tells you to keep your eyes on the road when going 200 on the autobahn is one of the least offensive intervention I can think of.

Imagine using the same argument for installing government visible in your own home to protect domestic abuse victims.

I don't want a camera watching me. I don't want to pay for repairs or my car being out of commission b/c the camera isn't working.

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