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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#761

Post by starvar2 »

thi2 wrote: post #453
aenis wrote: post #187

If I hate anything about the EU, its the morons writing regulations for cars. My car constantly distracts me with some beeps, sometimes loud enough to be dangerous. Its surely one of the reasons far right is on the rise -- with things like 'drivers party' in some European countries winning serious votes. I spend 1-2hrs in the car each day, and I hate what those regulations did to driving. (Worst offenders: Japanese c…

More than once did my lane assistant try to run me into the barrier in a construction zone. You can turn it off, however its on again after on the next start... And all this comes with insanely high priced repairs that you cant really DIY anymore.

Same, I have one bend near my home on which my car always pulls my steering wheel into a certain direction even though I'm perfectly driving in the middle. These "safety" systems are anything but safe, and very frustrating.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#762

Post by kgabis »

trinix912 wrote: post #89
rdtsc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2.5) Your car doesn’t start 3) Enjoy I will start now but I think not for long. “For your own safety we disabled your car”.

It won’t be long until someone finds a way to flash the firmware or install a bootleg sensor or something else. You can already get a lot “chipped” on VAG and BMW cars.

I'd rather keep my warranty.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#763

Post by dontwannahearit »

Gigachad wrote: post #576
lettergram wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incredible amount of killing from distracted drivers > 1.10 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/trumps-transpor... For reference, fatalities on bikes: > 9.32 fatalities per 100 million cyclist miles (6 deaths per 100M kilometers) https://www.calbike.org/urban-transportation-research-bike-f...

The first link is a propaganda website so not really much use, and for the second one, pretty much all fatalities on bikes are the result of being killed by distracted drivers. >The US has eight times as many pedestrian deaths per mile as Germany. Clearly the US is unusually bad for distracted driving.

I think the average size of US vehicles has something to do with it. Being hit by a distracted driver in a Fiat Cinquecento is probably way more survivable than being hit by an F250 Super Duty twatwagon.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#765

Post by moffkalast »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #610
phoronixrly wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's working on making driving a car unbearable has my vote! My bicycle has a single chime and it's manually operated.

If your primary mode of transportation is a bicycle and you're cheering shit that annoys and (critically) distracts motorists you might have a death wish.

Yeah, the occupants of the car won't be dying, I'm pretty sure every collision is survivable with seatbelts on with modern cars that have a meter of crumple zone in every direction and look like bloated whales. But pedestrians, cyclists, and motorcyclists are gonna die on impact with them.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#766

Post by mort96 »

Vasbarlog wrote: post #748
tuetuopay wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost slammed bicycles in Paris on a few occasions because of that crap. Shift a bit to the left to overtake them, get lane assist slam me back right. Thankfully those were close calls, but only thanks to the cyclist being used to traffic in Paris and having good reflexes. Any dangerous machine (like a car) must not do anything unexpected out of the driver's control. A lane assist that resists the wheel when tryin…

In all fairness, you should have put your left blinkers on while overtaking the cyclist, and that would have disabled the lane assist.

Literally does not matter at all. The car should not automatically jerk itself into a cyclist.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#767

Post by benj111 »

skhr0680 wrote: post #510
peterlk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over Christmas, I spent several minutes trying to debug my beeping dashboard - it only seemed to happen sometimes while driving, so stopping didn’t let me figure it out. Eventually I discovered that it was beeping at me because my eyes weren’t on the road enough. Of course, figuring that out required me to take my eyes off the road to figure out which blinking signal was associated with this particular alarm. Also, b…

> I feel like there’s some lesson here in building to the lowest common denominator, and giving people products rather than tools (tools are more dangerous, but more useful), but maybe I’m just grumpy. It's from a culture that says more alarms = safer. Perhaps the people who design these things need an alarm to warn them of "alarm fatigue".

Yeah I don't like alarms and random beeps. I now have a Peugeot 106. The only thing that beeps is the cd player to remind me to remove the front plate. I need to sort that. Grrr.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#768

Post by tremon »

mcmoor wrote: post #693
WalterBright wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot look up "beep" in the manual when you have 40 beeps. You are not objectively worse off with a word than a beep, even if you do not understand the word. Driving a car with beeps and chimes and dings means they all mush together and get ignored.

Feels like it'd be easier to differentiate jingles compared to different words of a language you don't know. You can vary intonations etc, but by that point you're back to jingles.

How are you going to look up a jingle in the manual? Should they be sorted by pitch or by tempo?

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#769

Post by cloudie78 »

sod wrote: post #750

It boggles my mind that some people are more concerned how much fun driving a car is supposed to be vs 60 people dying in the EU in car accidents every day. If 60 people died because an airplane falls of the sky every day we wouldn't shrugg that off either, wouldn't we? And a voice that tells you to keep your eyes on the road when going 200 on the autobahn is one of the least offensive intervention I can think of.

60 a day for whole EU is a really good number.

Maximising for 0 enters into territory of causing more harm than good.

As someone who regularly drives flat out in the autobahn (whatever speed the car maxes out at) - I’d rather not get random beeping at me because I glanced at my rear view mirror for 20ms too long to move out of the way for someone faster behind me.

Especially when you already have a bunch of beeping signals something going wrong with the car like tyre pressure loss.

And that’s before we even start talking how usually driver assistance in cars is crap to begin with, from lane assistance following the wrong lines, to automatic brake systems spazzing out because the camera doesn’t like the reflection caused by a Renault badge (any VAG from 2015-2020 has had this problem), even ACC has it’s own problems that I could rant about.

Anyone who doesn’t want to pay attention to the road will not pay attention to the road - one way to defeat this “assistance” system is to just mount your phone above the dashboard so it’s in your line of sight. Then what? More cameras?

I know a nanny state and nanny-state adjacent entity/system resonates well with the average HN reader but this “driver assistance” system is anything but that.

The real fix is to filter out and keep irresponsible drivers away from operating vehicles, and to teach people how to drive well, and not adjusting to the lowest common denominator.

Anecdotally, in Slovenia to pass the drivers exam you need to pass the motorway portion of the exam, one of the requirements here is to enter the motorway at high enough speed - 100kph on the on-ramp before merging.

I’ve had friends not get their drivers licence because of this - they didn’t have the confidence to drive that fast. Some more hours of driving training and they’re now some of the best drivers I know.

Some people also just do not possess the necessary hand eye leg coordination, reaction times, information filtering, decision making facilities to operate a vehicle well.

Filtering this out is a net positive because ability to drive fast safely without any handholding is a sign of competency, allowing lower competence on the road increases danger.

There is a maximum threshold for speed also once adjusted for biological and genetic realities (see reaction times between your average person and formula 1 driver)

As a real life example of this in action: most fatal accidents on rural roads at 53%, 38% urban areas, 8-9% on motorways.

Point being speed doesn’t kill, incompetence does. Under incompetence I file having the attention span of a squirrel, keep that strata away from the roads, don’t enable them.

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