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l: A new runtime for k and q

lv1.sh

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Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#71

Post by jloveless »

bingemaker wrote: post #70

| Memory is relatively slower. Memory got faster, no?

relative to CPU speed ... no. see [1][2].

the early versions of L (circa ... 2011/2012) couldn't really deliver any substantial performance improvement over what is out there (BQN/ngn/Kona). The memory bandwidth was the limit - I simply couldn't keep the cores active. ~2018/2019 I started from scratch with arrays (vectors) using compression by default. That was a massive unlock - and I could not keep most of the CPU doing actual compute! Then it was years of working on compression native operations - some of which were obvious[3] like sum/reductions ... others not so much!

[1] https://www.emergentmind.com/topics/memory-wall [2] https://www.cse.iitd.ac.in/~rijurekha/col216/quantitative_ap... [3] https://lv1.sh/blog/compute-on-compressed/

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#72

Post by jloveless »

nemothekid wrote: post #69
kensai wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem if a site is vibecoded? We will be seeing it more often, I recon. Let's get used to it. On the other hand, perhaps a disclaimer is in order.

> What's the problem if a site is vibecoded? Typically if a site is well designed, that used to be a signal that a lot of resources had been invested into the project. Now that signal is rather noisy. Here, is particularly bad, as the main page is just complete slop bullet points. What does 'end-to-end column compression' mean? or 'uniform bytes at every layer'? It's difficult to understand at a glance now, if this p…

fair point. I am not a front end designer and I did want something less spartan than proverbial q.txt [1] . To be honest - many folks in the community have had access for some time , and a website was just put up this week as a 'larger community access'.

That said the mail group has more details and the blog posts are effectively internal posts turned into shorter (less code) versions. The binary itself is years of effort - with small improvements over many years and shaving a few kb each time ... 'built the old way' like amish furniture :)

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20160306154854/http://kx.com/q/d...

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#73

Post by jloveless »

itishappy wrote: post #60
kensai wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem if a site is vibecoded? We will be seeing it more often, I recon. Let's get used to it. On the other hand, perhaps a disclaimer is in order.

It's a strong signal of unknown quality. Caveat emptor. Closed-source makes that extra difficult. We are used to this, hence why folks here point it out.

For QC this is a pretty solid tester (run on L or other compatible runtime) - focused on performance as it pushes multiple edges.

https://github.com/l-labs/master-benchmark

Which can also be run with minimal modifications on ngn and others.

For database the h2o.ai for duckDB really is a solid hard bench IMHO:

https://github.com/l-labs/db-benchmark/tree/main/l

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#74

Post by Onavo »

macmac wrote: post #68
Onavo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope OP can survive the lawsuits though, the K authors are infamously litigious.

Interesting, references?

Look online for Kx systems history of IP enforcement and legal threats. They are well known in the quant community for essentially being the Disney of time series databases. Nice tech yes, but the people behind it hold values that are typically diametrically opposite of hacker ethos. Good riddance.

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#75

Post by johanvts »

jackdoe wrote: post #20
enduku wrote: post #16

yeah the site's clearly vibecoded and isn't opensource, but i also think this is a genuinely interesting design space and more people should be building in it. APL ( https://www.dyalog.com/ ), BQN ( https://mlochbaum.github.io/BQN/ ), J/Jd ( https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Jd/Overview ), Klong ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10586872 ), Kerf ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9782520 ), RayforceDB ( https:…

I vibecoded https://punkx.org/apl/learn.html [1] its good slow entry into gnu-apl, at least it got me to be able to make tictactoe, vibecoded or not, it helped me to start. I am amazed how quickly APL changed the way I think. Also strongly recommend watching Aaron Hsu on youtube. There is no better time to re-learn programming, try APL, Forth, LISP, z80 machine code, UXN TAL, just try new things. "Men are born soft a…

APL is cool, but that quote hurts my brain. Disregard the funny typo, clearly different situations call for different strategies. For example, it might be great to use LLM slop interactively while learning, but that doesn’t mean it can be used as a finished product.

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#76

Post by jloveless »

jloveless wrote: post #73
itishappy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a strong signal of unknown quality. Caveat emptor. Closed-source makes that extra difficult. We are used to this, hence why folks here point it out.

For QC this is a pretty solid tester (run on L or other compatible runtime) - focused on performance as it pushes multiple edges. https://github.com/l-labs/master-benchmark Which can also be run with minimal modifications on ngn and others. For database the h2o.ai for duckDB really is a solid hard bench IMHO: https://github.com/l-labs/db-benchmark/tree/main/l

Even deeper is the full test suite ala

https://github.com/l-labs/rust_ipc/blob/master/tests/ipc_tes...

Which is ~6k tests (Rust is actually what I use to drive release testing)

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#77

Post by hatefulmoron »

jloveless wrote: post #55
lioeters wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Without seeing the code itself, one can only judge the book by its cover. I'm interested, but maybe not quite the target audience.

Unfortunately the code itself is in a style of C many find difficult to read. I blame my upbringing. ATW open sourced examples and it was not really helpful. More recently others are doing a step by step in more standard C https://github.com/ardentsia-cgs/kparser/

Isn't that "more standard C" because it's written by Claude?

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#80

Post by UnfitFootprint »

AUnterrainer wrote: post #78

So many keyboard warriors with all the hate about a vibe coded website? If you judge a project based on its website, that tells everything about you.

Why would you not base your first impressions of a product on the way it chooses to describe itself? It’s not feasible to install everything you lay eyes on for evaluation, and reviews often assume you already assume the product is a good fit and want to evaluate quality/validity of that assumption
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