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l: A new runtime for k and q

lv1.sh

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Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#51

Post by jloveless »

lioeters wrote: post #50
jazza68 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the author of the site makes no secret that the website is vibecoded. You're unfairly extrapolating that the product itself is vibe-coded (hard to do unless he is a time-traveller). And you're missing the point of the unique advantages that L offers wrt computation on compressed data.

Fair enough. Without seeing the code itself, one can only judge the book by its cover. I'm interested, but maybe not quite the target audience.

give it a spin! download is ~500kb for mac. It is however targeting folks who come from that world - but K/Q are absolutely worth exploring!

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#52

Post by pillmillipedes »

jloveless wrote: post #35
dintech wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely and given Kx is now private equity owned and are in the customer-squeezing phase of the acquisition, this is very welcome indeed.

and fusion (e.g. f g h x has no intermediates e.g. mutates in place) is new as is compute on compressed vectors (very helpful performance unlock) https://lv1.sh/blog/compute-on-compressed/

[1] seems to have the actual details on compressed vectors. looks like for each page you're storing min&max, and the values come as offsets from the min (smaller->less bits per value), did I get that right?

  primitive speedup  
  sum price 7.7x  
  avg price 33x
how does this even happen though?

[1]https://lv1.sh/blog/compression-memory-wall/

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#53

Post by jloveless »

pillmillipedes wrote: post #52
jloveless wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and fusion (e.g. f g h x has no intermediates e.g. mutates in place) is new as is compute on compressed vectors (very helpful performance unlock) https://lv1.sh/blog/compute-on-compressed/

[1] seems to have the actual details on compressed vectors. looks like for each page you're storing min&max, and the values come as offsets from the min (smaller->less bits per value), did I get that right? primitive speedup sum price 7.7x avg price 33x how does this even happen though? [1] https://lv1.sh/blog/compression-memory-wall/

simple example at https://lv1.sh/blog/compute-on-compressed/ But in general compression is reducing the bit width of the input through an encoder (FOR or Frame of Reference is an old and good example). So we store the base in an offset location then the large payload is a much smaller size. E.g. i64 can goto i16. Then simd gets more #'s per cycle on the smaller, and the base is added to the scratch in stack (for sum). avg is similar (since it is just sum / count)

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#54

Post by jloveless »

pillmillipedes wrote: post #52
jloveless wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and fusion (e.g. f g h x has no intermediates e.g. mutates in place) is new as is compute on compressed vectors (very helpful performance unlock) https://lv1.sh/blog/compute-on-compressed/

[1] seems to have the actual details on compressed vectors. looks like for each page you're storing min&max, and the values come as offsets from the min (smaller->less bits per value), did I get that right? primitive speedup sum price 7.7x avg price 33x how does this even happen though? [1] https://lv1.sh/blog/compression-memory-wall/

there's even a secret -17!`name that will show the details. e.g.

  //100k random 32b ints ... 
  l>v:100000?255
  l>v
  196 124 18 216 63 169 151 173 126 99 90 133 92 158 217 169 201 191 138 105 13..
  // but actually they are 1/4 the size e.g. int8
  l>-17!`v
  1b        // is compressed?
  100032j   // compressed bytes
  400000j   // original bytes

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#55

Post by jloveless »

lioeters wrote: post #50
jazza68 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the author of the site makes no secret that the website is vibecoded. You're unfairly extrapolating that the product itself is vibe-coded (hard to do unless he is a time-traveller). And you're missing the point of the unique advantages that L offers wrt computation on compressed data.

Fair enough. Without seeing the code itself, one can only judge the book by its cover. I'm interested, but maybe not quite the target audience.

Unfortunately the code itself is in a style of C many find difficult to read. I blame my upbringing. ATW open sourced examples and it was not really helpful. More recently others are doing a step by step in more standard C https://github.com/ardentsia-cgs/kparser/

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#56

Post by refulgentis »

ofalkaed wrote: post #17
refulgentis wrote: post #3

Flagged, lots of unexplained grandiose thinking like “k and q made the vector the unit of thought.” K and q are unexplained and unlinked and “unit vector of thought” is pseudoscientific language Extremely likely to be AI, though I’m not sure that matters for rules re: submissions

>If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please don't also comment that you did. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Thank you! I'm always finding new rules, even 16 years in :) Much appreciated when it's pointed out.

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#57

Post by kensai »

enduku wrote: post #16

yeah the site's clearly vibecoded and isn't opensource, but i also think this is a genuinely interesting design space and more people should be building in it. APL ( https://www.dyalog.com/ ), BQN ( https://mlochbaum.github.io/BQN/ ), J/Jd ( https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Jd/Overview ), Klong ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10586872 ), Kerf ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9782520 ), RayforceDB ( https:…

What's the problem if a site is vibecoded? We will be seeing it more often, I recon. Let's get used to it. On the other hand, perhaps a disclaimer is in order.

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#58

Post by jloveless »

kensai wrote: post #57
enduku wrote: post #16

yeah the site's clearly vibecoded and isn't opensource, but i also think this is a genuinely interesting design space and more people should be building in it. APL ( https://www.dyalog.com/ ), BQN ( https://mlochbaum.github.io/BQN/ ), J/Jd ( https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Jd/Overview ), Klong ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10586872 ), Kerf ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9782520 ), RayforceDB ( https:…

What's the problem if a site is vibecoded? We will be seeing it more often, I recon. Let's get used to it. On the other hand, perhaps a disclaimer is in order.

there's one in the footer and agree.

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#59

Post by joshjob42 »

casey2 wrote: post #14
zacharynewton wrote: post #8

Not sure why all the hate (sure site may be vibecoded, not all of us are front-end masters and it's at least not spartan)... I've always found k to be fascinating, and cool idea to try and roll a new one. Wish it were wholly open source, but cool to have a new variant that seems to bench well.

Sure the site, the articles, the program. But sure lets just trust that the author who can't write knows how to benchmark software

I mean do a bunch of simulation work and statistics stuff but now jack about website design, so if I ever make a website about any project of mine it'll be vibedcoded or a barebones export of an org file README on github. Websites have little bearing on programming language runtime development, no?

Re: l: A new runtime for k and q

#60

Post by itishappy »

kensai wrote: post #57
enduku wrote: post #16

yeah the site's clearly vibecoded and isn't opensource, but i also think this is a genuinely interesting design space and more people should be building in it. APL ( https://www.dyalog.com/ ), BQN ( https://mlochbaum.github.io/BQN/ ), J/Jd ( https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Jd/Overview ), Klong ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10586872 ), Kerf ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9782520 ), RayforceDB ( https:…

What's the problem if a site is vibecoded? We will be seeing it more often, I recon. Let's get used to it. On the other hand, perhaps a disclaimer is in order.

It's a strong signal of unknown quality. Caveat emptor. Closed-source makes that extra difficult.

We are used to this, hence why folks here point it out.

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