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Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#641

Post by stratocumulus0 »

bulbar wrote: post #543
wrqvrwvq wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An insane assumption when there are millions of immigrants in every european country lining up for every type of health care service and not contributing a cent back into it

I think you talking about refugees, not regular migration. People who migrate need to deposit thousands of Euros, at least when they come for training in health care sector (nurse or doctor). You can also come if you have an offer from a German company or a very good outlook to get one. In any case, you are not allowed to stay if you don't work for a longer period of time. I can't believe how many don't know about th…

In most cases it's not possible for a refugee who's already in Germany to gain a regular residence permit without going back to their country of origin and starting the entire immigration process from scratch. All this talk about refugees not wanting to integrate, and no one mentioning that there is no point for them to integrate whatsoever, if they are going to be kicked out eventually regardless of their merit.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#642

Post by suddenlybananas »

mstaoru wrote: post #580

I can add my anecdote to the language barrier points. At work we speak English, everybody speak English all the time, all docs are in English, all meetings are in English. There's an occasional German email every now and then but people will switch. When we go to a "team building" retreat, all the same teammates that happily chatted with us expats in English just switch to German 100%, full stop. You can come and sta…

God forbid people speak the language of their country.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#643

Post by jdex »

itake wrote: post #606
kombine wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rule is that if you want to settle in the country, you ought to learn the local language and it doesn't really matter how much money you make in my opinion. I got to B2 and passed the test, but ultimately left Germany years ago. I don't intend to go back but I also don't regret learning the language.

What do you say to people that literally can’t? I still can’t pronounce about a third of the Vietnamese sounds. I’ve had three private in person tutors, no luck. Should I just like pack up my bags and leave?

Germany makes an exemption for those people [0]:

> The requirements [to possess sufficient knowledge of the German language] shall be waived if the foreigner is unable to fulfill them due to a physical, mental, or psychological illness or disability, or due to age.

[0] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stag/__10.html

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#644

Post by jeroenhd »

djaro wrote: post #454
dgs_sgd wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your perspective, but I was curious what B1 proficiency actually entails and this is what I found [1]: - understand the main points of clear standard speech on familiar topics such as work, school, or leisure - manage most situations that occur while traveling in German-speaking areas - produce simple, connected text on familiar subjects - describe experiences, events, dreams, hopes, and ambitions, and b…

Yeah, B1 is not even nearly fluent, on my B1 exam Spanish I had to roleplay with the examinator going to a store to return something after buying the wrong item. This is like, bare minimum of functioning. I cannot imagine living in a country for over a year and not taking the effort to lesrn the language.

If you speak English and live in an area where most others speak English, then it's not hard to get by without learning the local language. People who do that often find it difficult to make friends outside of expat circles who do the same, but it's perfectly possible to live like that.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#645

Post by oblio »

rayiner wrote: post #297
ikut3hva wrote: post #165

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

> Story 2: In an international working environment, German may not matter much at the IC level. But I’ve seen countless situations where Germans exchange a glance with each other, and suddenly the final decision is not what was agreed upon in the meeting. Over time, I’ve learned that there are many unwritten rules behind the scenes, and when you speak their language, you start to understand them. I mean, how many CEO…

> I mean, how many CEOs of major German companies are non-German?

A quick headcount says Mercedes, Adidas, Bayer,...

https://www.consultancy.eu/news/1605/one-third-of-executives...

It pays off to do the actual research before passing judgment.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#646

Post by IshKebab »

froh wrote: post #626
torginus wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans just love to exclude others based on their 'master race' sentiment - I have had this happen to others in my vicinity, so that's why I know it's not a personal grievance thing. I had a friend rejected from a job (she was not German but lived in Germany, and spoke the language), as the recruiter told her they are looking only for people from DACH countries becase of some 'data protection laws' that can be enfor…

that relates to the C2/C1/B2 conversation in which way?

Presumably they are excluding non-native Germans using difficult German language requirements?

Tbh I wish my current employer had higher (or any) English language requirements. It makes meetings (especially video calls which is all of them) significantly harder when you have to decode heavily Indian English as well as understand highly complex technical discussions.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#647

Post by suddenlybananas »

bcye wrote: post #325
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone wearing a hijab looks out of place in the land of the Döner? The history with the Turkish gastarbeiters is a complicated one. Please don't twist the knife in the wound.

How is this twisting the knife in the wound? I wanted to say that they (and other people wearing hijabs) are part of German culture.

This is very bad faith and you know it.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#648

Post by oblio »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #435
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can only speculate, but usually when such phrases come up, it's about things like not being part of the in-group - people they know throwing parties and not inviting them, etc. Concerning "part of the in-group": It is very usual that in Germany, you don't become a "friend" fast (the German translation of "friend", [der] Freund, has a much deeper meaning than the US-American understanding of the English word). Fri…

> If you do shallow smalltalk (as it is very common in the USA), you signal that you only want a shallow relationship. That sounds like an extremely obnoxious judgement. > If you want a deep friendship, better bring something deep to the table. At some point sure. Are you suggesting launching into deep conversation when you meet someone?

> That sounds like an extremely obnoxious judgement.

Or just a cultural difference.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#649

Post by account42 »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #578
exoverito wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's human nature to be "racist" since people generally prefer to be with others similar to themselves. That can be multi-dimensional, ranging from values, cultures, tastes, but race is the most obvious and one of the major principal components of human experience. Japan, Korea, and Taiwan are effectively ethnostates and they've not had the cultural enrichment yet that America or Europe has faced. Notably, there is r…

> It's human nature to be "racist" since people generally prefer to be with others similar to themselves. This is blatantly and obviously not true. Especially when discussing ex-pats, as you'd realise if you gave it 5 seconds' thought.

Expats actually prove the rule, otherwise we would not need a word for them.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#650

Post by weatherlite »

joe_mamba wrote: post #323
eldaisfish wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sad to see this downvoted because it is very much true. European society loves to pretend that they are these progressive, enlightened people. In reality, what they are is just better at hiding their racism and xenophobia. Your last point is largely wrong. The primary difference between immigrants to the US and to Europe is in qualifications. The majority of US immigrants are skilled. The majority of immigrants to Eu…

>In reality, what they are is just better at hiding their racism and xenophobia. It's not xenofobia, it's just a rigid caste system with little to no upward mobility for immigrants, setup for the economic benefit of the locals at the expense of most immigrants. Sweden and others for example has no inheritance taxes so locals inheriting property and assets get a massive leg up at advancing in society with little effor…

> but most illegals to US are not skilled, but they're tolerated as long as they don't break any major laws

Define tolerated. It's quite a divisive issue in the U.S and I'd say there's a majority who doesn't want open borders or a policy that de facto lets anyone who entered the U.S stay regardless of their legality.

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