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Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

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Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#261

Post by [deleted] »

est31 wrote: post #39
tasuki wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is not very immigration friendly to non-han folks What do you mean? I've never been to China, but know quite a few non-han white Europeans who lived there for both shorter and longer periods of time. Some studied, others worked there.

I've never been to China either. It's a huge country and it probably depends on where you are (hong kong probably friendlier than a random place in the mainland), but from what I heard/read: * language issues. Many chinese don't speak english. Also a problem in many european countries (esp latin and slavic speaking ones), but at least the european languages are easier to learn. Compare this to Amsterdam, Goteborg, Be…

[deleted]

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#262

Post by RandomLensman »

palata wrote: post #255
RandomLensman wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GFC = Great Financial Crisis. I'd look at that first rather than some peak oil for Europe's underperformance.

Is "GFC" the subprimes crisis? Because that one, in 2008, may well be a consequence of the peak of conventional oil. It's not "some peak for Europe", it is THE peak for the world of, well, conventional oil, which means anything that is not the shale oil in North America.

It started in 2007. I don't see the peak oil connection there - what is it?

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#263

Post by 4ggr0 »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #173
sajithdilshan wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is not immigration friendly as well if you don't speak the native language, of course one could live in an English speaking bubble, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be in Academia.

Politically speaking, the top polling party in Germany refuses to have a discussion about neo-nazis in its ranks, and boasts that "we are growing stronger and larger all the time": https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rwflha_NkVE Similar things are going on in the UK (Reform/Restore) and France, where most projections have the National Rally candidate winning the next presidential election: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op…

> immigration freeze far more draconian than anything Trump ever proposed

as a swiss i am very happy that we didn't vote this through, but you're still being very hyperbolic. they wanted to put a cap on the population, which is bonkers, don't get me wrong.

however, no jail-like deportation centers, gestapo-like policeforce searching for immigrants and unlawfully putting them into trucks and many more things trump did and wants to do which my mind tries to forget.

there is an issue with people hating immigrants in our country, but please don't suggest that we're on US/Trump level, which to me seems more like what the germans started to do in the beginning* of you know what and who.

*comparing it to the beginning on purpose. not yet on total annihilation mode, but seeing as there's reports of hundreds of people going missing from Alligator Alcatraz, and minding the people who have been shot/killed, y'all are doing a good job of repeating history.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#264

Post by bialpio »

AngryData wrote: post #256
dataflow wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually surprised you were fine with single-hose. I've never seen a single-hose portable A/C unit that did an adequate job. AIUC, the laws of physics make that rather difficult. In fact I've sometimes seen them actively make things worse. Whereas I have seen dual-hose do an adequate job. Also note, "survive" is a rather low bar. We're talking about encouraging some of the world's top researchers to move from the…

Ive seen a few single hose AC units that worked okay. I still don't understand why they exist though. The window installment at its minimum span is still putting the ends quite far apart and would increase efficiency.

Unfortunately, I could not find a dual-hose unit off-the-shelf in any of the local stores and didn't have any hopes of getting it in time if I ordered it online.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#265

Post by palata »

RandomLensman wrote: post #262
palata wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "GFC" the subprimes crisis? Because that one, in 2008, may well be a consequence of the peak of conventional oil. It's not "some peak for Europe", it is THE peak for the world of, well, conventional oil, which means anything that is not the shale oil in North America.

It started in 2007. I don't see the peak oil connection there - what is it?

Peak oil means that oil becomes harder to get. That's the definition of the peak: the production increases until the peak, and decreases after. When the economy is directly correlated to oil, it means that a decrease in oil results in the economy slowing down.

> I don't see the peak oil connection there - what is it?

We got an economical crisis right when we reached peak oil production. Again, there is an extremely clear correlation between oil production and the economy.

Since 2007, the US has had access to shale oil and the likes, so they haven't reached their peak yet. Europe, on the other hand, has reached their peak in 2007. And since then, the economy (if you look at physical indicators, not artificial proxies like the GDP) is slowing down. Again an extremely clear correlation.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#266

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

4ggr0 wrote: post #263
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politically speaking, the top polling party in Germany refuses to have a discussion about neo-nazis in its ranks, and boasts that "we are growing stronger and larger all the time": https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rwflha_NkVE Similar things are going on in the UK (Reform/Restore) and France, where most projections have the National Rally candidate winning the next presidential election: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op…

> immigration freeze far more draconian than anything Trump ever proposed as a swiss i am very happy that we didn't vote this through, but you're still being very hyperbolic. they wanted to put a cap on the population, which is bonkers, don't get me wrong. however, no jail-like deportation centers, gestapo-like policeforce searching for immigrants and unlawfully putting them into trucks and many more things trump did…

There's a difference between hamfisted/uneven attempts to enforce immigration law which is already on the books, and proposing a total freeze on legal immigration. Trump never did the latter. The US came closer to a total freeze in the 1920s.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#267

Post by eth0up »

andsoitis wrote: post #129

That's not a truthful translation of the article's headline, BTW. More correct would be "First international scientists to the Netherlands via the Tulip Fund", which is a far cry from the title as submitted.

Because I was flagged, with no reason or excuse, to those who actually manually viewed the now invisible comment and wonder the reference, please see:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
Considering the grim reality of our fiscal derangement, and the context, I think the reaction here was a bit obtuse. Or maybe I'm beleaguered by Taylor Swift fans.... and economists, which I think have very similar discretion

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#268

Post by fakedang »

Levitz wrote: post #102
fakedang wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt many of the researchers migrating even want Chinese citizenship and the chains that come along with it, so why do most people (presumably Americans) keep harping on and on about it? Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional research background, you're literally given an open chequebook for both your personal compensation and your future research endeavors. You're allowed to take your family along wi…

>I doubt many of the researchers migrating even want Chinese citizenship and the chains that come along with it, so why do most people (presumably Americans) keep harping on and on about it? Because it's an important matter regarding immigration. If you want to live in a country, you might want to actually be a citizen of that country. Does that need explaining? >Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional re…

Replies like these reek of Western exceptionalism or the misfortune of not having travelled much.

Yes, there are certain countries where one can pretty much work in without the need to obtain citizenship. I wouldn't want to be a citizen of Qatar/the UAE (world's most powerful passports) or a citizen of China, simply because obtaining them subjects you to a whole can of worms of absolutist laws.

And yes, people can easily live in a country without interacting with the locals at all. Just ask the Americans and Europeans in the Gulf or Singapore, who barely interact with any locals outside of their workplace. Or ask expats in India and Indonesia who barely interact with locals except in the context of some menial chores.

Clearly you haven't lived or worked in Asia.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#269

Post by fakedang »

Levitz wrote: post #139
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever lived overseas? Honestly you sound delusional. Do you think the USA makes it easy to become a citizen? Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place. Acting like the bar for living somewhere is citizenship is nuts. > Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the…

I have lived abroad, yes. Does the USA make it easy to become a citizen? If the comparison is China, yes, a thousand times yes. Does language and society matter a truckload? Absolutely. >Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place. Yes. Does China treat immigrants better than the US? As I explained, no. There is no…

> Does China treat immigrants better than the US?

Yes, if they're well educated enough. Which is the kind of immigration the article deals with in the first place. China doesn't want "doctors and engineers" from Africa and the Middle East. It wants engineering and scientific talent, and it brutally competes with the rest of the world with some of the highest pay packages. Pay for these folks is often higher than for even the best Chinese talent.

Compare that to the current US. ICE roaming the streets that my PhD and HSW MBA holding friends have to carry their passports even when going grocery shopping or out on dates. An administration that is hellbent on kicking them out and cutting their grant funding. One side of the house hellbent on discussing immigration and silly debates on Shariah law when it barely affects the country anyhow, while branding all foreign immigration as evil. You must be delusional if you think otherwise.

> . A model of immigration based on money is not immigration at all, that's just hiring foreign workers

That is precisely China's model. China wants technical mercenaries, not people who want to build roots. Work hard for a decade or two, then enjoy your newfound earnings.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#270

Post by j7ake »

BeetleB wrote: post #175
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At 1 million euros per head. Over 5 years...

Which still a great salary and competitive with the US, in academia.

That’s not salary that’s research funds to hire students and start the lab.
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