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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing kia evs and having a Tesla. Its the only good EV brand because the software from everywhere else is a complete joke. Kia will tell me my doors are unlocked when I'm at home. Tesla has a set home feature. Plus the 50 other annoyances. Regen doesn't even persist with kia. You have to press the paddle to add it every time you start the car. All this to say, the only good ux car anymore is tesla. Too bad the…

Disagree. I have been driving Kia for 2.5 years. I think the UX is quite good. I would assume that most people who live in a city would want to know when the Kia is unlocked at home. I think your dislike of that feature may reflect your residence type or garage type. My experience of Tesla UX was poor, given how few manual controls were available, and the extensive touchscreen reliance required while driving.

A Tesla can choose to auto lock. Or not lock.

Or not lock in a certain area.

Plus the app is an actual usable thing. Not a crap one that sends notifications about doors being unlocked in a garage that never updates.

Last year I had to take my kia to the dealer just to have connectivity work. Verizon had a change and you couldn't even fix it without going in. Antiquated dealer software updates as well.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's totally plausible to me that this kind of nudge will save a lot of lives. I think an in-car breathalyzer which gates the ignition would also save a lot of lives. Most people agree that kind of manufactured paternalism is an overreach and would be against its introduction. Other people say the same about the diverted driving detector, and I imagine others said the same about the seatbelt sensor. The intersectio…

It only sounds like overreach because we have become numb to an incredible amount of killing from distracted drivers.

> incredible amount of killing from distracted drivers

> 1.10 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/trumps-transpor...

For reference, fatalities on bikes:

> 9.32 fatalities per 100 million cyclist miles (6 deaths per 100M kilometers)

https://www.calbike.org/urban-transportation-research-bike-f...

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#553
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about the EU, but since you brought up US emissions testing... I live in California, only drive mid 2000s cars, and haven't noticed any of the restrictions getting tighter. It's the usual check every 2 years at the same place. Seems my cars are grandfathered into old emissions standards too. And yeah I enjoy having my car shut the hell up and let me drive.

For mid 2000s, the car is self monitoring so an emissions check is just a visual once over to ensure no physical tampering and a computer readout of emission readiness monitors + firmware checksum for digital tampering.

Right, and even the monitors can differ. If a car wasn't made with a certain monitor, that's one less check it has to pass. One of my cars had issues with passing SAI, the other has N/A for that.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno why these programs never took a sampling approach and data-mined which makes/models/years to target the next year/cycle.

The only way to have affordable, ubiquitous testing stations is to make it universal. At least, in states that do not also require safety inspections. If only 10,000 cars were tested each year, nobody would buy the equipment.

I don't see what the issue is. Pay the people running the test station more per test but less overall.

Extremely rough example numbers: Instead of testing a million cars for $20 each, 10k cars are tested for $200 each. 85% of testing stations shut down, and the rest downsize if they can, but there's still plenty of them around. The total cost of testing drops 90%. The state taxes every car $2 to pay for the randomized testing; being selected means you lose an hour driving to the station, not that you lose $200 of your own money.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#555
post #59

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Over Christmas, I spent several minutes trying to debug my beeping dashboard - it only seemed to happen sometimes while driving, so stopping didn’t let me figure it out. Eventually I discovered that it was beeping at me because my eyes weren’t on the road enough. Of course, figuring that out required me to take my eyes off the road to figure out which blinking signal was associated with this particular alarm. Also, b…

> Also, being constantly warned that I was speeding in rural areas where the car missed a speed limit sign caused me to start ignoring the speeding alarm within a few hours of driving the car.

Where do you live?

In slovenia for example, we have "default speed limits", where there are zero traffic signs unless the speed limit deviates from the default for that type of road (50 within settlements, 90 outside, 110 on motorways and 130 on highways).

This also makes me want to buy a shirt with 150km/h or 20km/h sign on my back.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#556
Like red light cameras, this is one of those genuinely good ideas that is likely to end up being much less effective than it could have been for two reasons:

1. The regulators who implement it will set the detection times and thresholds shorter and tighter than what would have worked best. Why? Because Pareto says the worst ~20% of serial offenders are causing >80% of the serious accidents. So, the optimal settings would not trigger for brief detections or even for occasional longer detections. They would instead minimize interruptions, inconvenience and false positives for the majority of drivers and only trigger when long lapses start occurring frequently. Just targeting only the worst ~20% would save countless lives with so little disruption, it would be widely lauded.

Unfortunately, the well-intentioned bureaucrats won't be able to reason past the implied moral hazard (and potential political blowback) of being responsible for permitting any lapse which might result in an accident. But any near-zero tolerance threshold forces a useful but inherently imperfect technology into failure modes that will cause resentment, resistance and demand for workarounds.

2. Because the inevitable deterrent fines will be used to pay for enforcement, it will become its own sub-bureaucracy inside the system with its own staff, budgets and performance metrics, all with a vested interest in 'saving more lives' by increasing staff which can be made 'revenue neutral' by increasing fines. This is what happened with red light cameras in many municipalities. The 'free money' from mailed out 'photo tickets' was so good they eliminated reasonable grace periods and even shortened the yellow light time, so irate citizens got them banned in many cities.

Personally, I'm not worried about someone who slides through an intersection a half second after the light turns red. It's vanishingly unlikely that person is going to cause an accident. Where red light cameras could (and should) be saving lives is >5 seconds after the opposite light has turned green and cars are in the intersection. I barely avoided a lady last year coming straight toward me at ~50 mph more 10 seconds after her light had turned red and multiple cars were stopped in all three other lanes next to her. If a car had been stopped at the light in her lane, she'd have hit and killed them. Despite every car at the intersection leaning on their horns she never slowed and never swerved. There's no sign she ever saw the light or the intersection at all. But someone had to fuck with the yellow times to make money.

And I'm hardly 'soft' on distracted driving. My wife and daughter were hit by a distracted driver 9 weeks ago and both received serious concussions. Fortunately, they'll both fully recover but my wife is still in physical therapy and the broken rear axle on her car still isn't done being repaired. They were T-boned at a perfect 90 degrees by a 16-year-old boy going the opposite direction who was turning left across their side of the road into a side street. Here's the thing: it's a straight, extra wide, well-marked, divided residential boulevard with perfect visibility, zero obstructions and bright streetlights. It was 10p and no other cars were anywhere in sight. He wasn't intoxicated and the police just rolled their eyes when he repeatedly denied being on his phone. He was in a dedicated, uncontrolled turn lane, where you stop, check there's no oncoming traffic and then make your left turn. And he drove straight into literally the only other car on the road. We later timed it and he had to be looking away for more than THREE seconds to not see the big, bright, well-lit car approaching under the working streetlights. If my wife hadn't watched him the whole way and swerved when he didn't stop, it could easily have been a potentially deadly near-head-on collision. Until he grows up a bit, he's the ~20% worst-case, repeat offender that this tech could and should stop. Not someone who glances down at their phone while stopped at a light or looks away for a split second to turn down the volume on their radio.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#557

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

> At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. At this point I'm contemplating finding a a late 60s/early 70s Beetle - or some other car with no more complex electronics in it than headlight switches and dizzy/points type ignition. Nobody is gonna be able to sewt that to remote brick itself when it thinks I'm ignoring it's incessant beeping.

Unless you're going to be staying within a small city with almost entirely short trips, you probably want a bigger and less primitive car from that era than a Beetle.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't rule out another Cash for Clunkers. The 2009 program destroyed 1 in 300 cars on the road. The next one could be bigger. Also, 3 in 4 cars on the road today are now in states requiring emissions tests for your annual registration, which can pose a significant (and growing, as standards improve) obstacle for older cars.

Cash for Clunkers was not mandatory

Wasn't mandatory to sell your car. Was mandatory to pay taxes that were partially used on those buyouts. You also couldn't opt out of used car prices being higher because of it.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's working on making driving a car unbearable has my vote! My bicycle has a single chime and it's manually operated.

Wait until they mandate a panel of warning LEDs on your bike or a cam on your bike recording your face.

Wait until manual bikes are banned and only gps tracked e-bikes exist for citizen safety!

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This driving session brought to you by your friends at PepsiCo. There's a Buc-ee's on your route. Would you like to add a stop to grab a cool refreshing 44 oz Mountain Dew Code Red?

I'm going to Taco Bell for some fine dining. Let them know I want a chilled bottle of Baja Blast waiting upon arrival.

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