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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#541

Post by hparadiz »

borosuxks wrote: post #64
Dries007 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with my Volvo EX30 has been the complete opposite. Although the false positives have gone down with software updates, it's still wrong so often I turn it off every time it bothers me. Due to some other regulation, this setting is unfortunately not remembered. That means every time I get in the car, I have to spend time going trough the settings to disable it, often while already driving. Seems like a gr…

I'm not sure it's actual regulations, but the Euro NCAP safety tests requiring all these "features" (like not remembering when you turn them off) to get a max score. And who doesn't want the safest car?

People that have a perfect driving record.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#542

Post by slopinthebag »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #337
slopinthebag wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “green movement” and “the environment” but mostly a desire for control. Why should people be able to own private property like cars, we should all be using government owned means of transportation in our new socialist utopia.

"the environment" wants to "force people out of cars"? are you hearing yourself?

No, you’re not hearing me. The given reason for people wanting to force people out of cars is the environment, it’s not literally the environment wanting to force people out of cars (nonsense statement) and for a lot of people, that given reason isn’t even the real reason.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#543

Post by slopinthebag »

stackghost wrote: post #318
slopinthebag wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “green movement” and “the environment” but mostly a desire for control. Why should people be able to own private property like cars, we should all be using government owned means of transportation in our new socialist utopia.

>Why should people be able to own private property like cars, we should all be using government owned means of transportation in our new socialist utopia. Given that electric vehicles including cars, busses and trains all exist, can you explain what relationship exists between the notion of private property ownership (notably cars) and "the green movement"? It is not clear to me why a global environmentalist cabal wo…

Because the green movement is largely made up of socialists. As such, the Venn diagram of the desired end result for socialists and the green movement is nearly a perfect circle. You will find very few right-leaning or libertarian greens. Almost all of them also believe in Marxism or some derivative of it, or at least some form of left-leaning technocracy. Hopefully you don’t need me to explain the relationship between Marxism and private property. And don’t assume I’m right-leaning per-say, I’m probably socially more left than you are, it’s just that I believe in the sanctimony of the individual (which is where my socially left leaning views stem from). I’m not even necessarily opposed to socialism in theory, just in practice.

To answer your second question, I don’t think it’s accurate to assume auto manufacturers have a financial interest in opposing the end of fossil fuels.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#544

Post by fc417fc802 »

mort96 wrote: post #208
afarah1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU driving assists are obtrusive to the point of making driving less safe in my experience. Great video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-S76WEl25k

IMO most features are annoying and contribute to alarm fatigue and driver irritation, but are not directly dangerous. Lane keep assist though? I often drive on narrow country roads barely wide enough for two cars, with a white line on each side but no center line. To avoid large oncoming cars, I need to drive on the white line to my right. When I do, lane keep assist activates motors in my steering wheel which try to…

I wonder if you could successfully sue if that "safety" feature actively crashed you into an oncoming vehicle. Seems like that ought to be treated as entirely the fault of the manufacturer.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#545

Post by hparadiz »

throw2ih020 wrote: post #398
joenot443 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's totally plausible to me that this kind of nudge will save a lot of lives. I think an in-car breathalyzer which gates the ignition would also save a lot of lives. Most people agree that kind of manufactured paternalism is an overreach and would be against its introduction. Other people say the same about the diverted driving detector, and I imagine others said the same about the seatbelt sensor. The intersectio…

> I think an in-car breathalyzer which gates the ignition would also save a lot of lives. > Most people agree that kind of manufactured paternalism is an overreach and would be against its introduction. Congress already passed a law in 2021 to start the process of requiring alcohol impairment detection in new cars around 2030 - the HALT Drunk Driving Act. It had broad, bipartisan support. I would say "most people agr…

I have a hard time believing that the public at large is gonna be okay with having to blow into a hose anytime they turn on their cars.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#546

Post by _carbyau_ »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #233
yoyohello13 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I have 2002 Honda accord and I’m dreading the day I need to get a modern car. My wife has a 2021 car and there is not a single feature it has that is necessary. In fact, many of them are actively bad. I’ve been driving every day, accident free, for 20 years and have never once needed lane assist, attention tracking or whatever the fuck. I wish there was a car that just had no additional ‘features’ beyond actual…

Then these features are not for you. They are for your kids when a distracted driver would crush their small skull with a 3T SUV.

Now that's a spurious "Won't somebody think of the children!" cry right there...

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#547

Post by [deleted] »

mrtksn wrote: post #200
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

It BS article, no cameras pointed at your face are required. They require "Advanced Driver Distraction Warning System", don't specify how it should be implemented. Here's the text describing the system: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2023/2590/oj/eng It specifically mentions that it is illegal to use the cameras from such system to identify the person. It is pretty much the opposite of what people think its go…

[deleted]

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#548

Post by itishappy »

mrtksn wrote: post #200
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

It BS article, no cameras pointed at your face are required. They require "Advanced Driver Distraction Warning System", don't specify how it should be implemented. Here's the text describing the system: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2023/2590/oj/eng It specifically mentions that it is illegal to use the cameras from such system to identify the person. It is pretty much the opposite of what people think its go…

Relevant section:

> 2.3. Privacy and data protection

> 2.3.1. The ADDW system shall function without relying on biometric personal data of any vehicle occupants. In this context, the biometric personal data is resulting from specific technical processing relating to the physical, physiological or behavioural characteristics of a natural person, which allow or confirm the unique identification of that natural person, such as facial images or dactyloscopic data. This requirement does not forbid the ADDW system to use data from the camera(s) equipped in the vehicle, it forbids the identification of the person by the ADDW system.

> 2.3.2. The ADDW system shall be designed in such a way that it shall only continuously record and retain data necessary for the system to function and operate within a closed-loop system.

> 2.3.3. Any processing of personal data shall be carried out in accordance with Union data protection law.

This doesn't appear to ban identification of the user by, say, the Advanced Driver Distraction Reporting System, which is triggered by and utilizes the same data streams as the Advanced Driver Distraction Warning System.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#549

Post by zelphirkalt »

phoronixrly wrote: post #502
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Laws for drivers written by people with chauffeurs. Not even that. They know the laws are stupid. They don't care. It's just another day at work for them. They're trying to surgically write laws to garner support/votes from shorsighted hand wringing Karens (plenty of examples in HN comments) while also not actually hurting industry/donors. So stupid rules and stupid beeps are what you get.

Anyone who's working on making driving a car unbearable has my vote! My bicycle has a single chime and it's manually operated.

Wait until they mandate a panel of warning LEDs on your bike or a cam on your bike recording your face.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#550

Post by ffsm8 »

skhr0680 wrote: post #510
peterlk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over Christmas, I spent several minutes trying to debug my beeping dashboard - it only seemed to happen sometimes while driving, so stopping didn’t let me figure it out. Eventually I discovered that it was beeping at me because my eyes weren’t on the road enough. Of course, figuring that out required me to take my eyes off the road to figure out which blinking signal was associated with this particular alarm. Also, b…

> I feel like there’s some lesson here in building to the lowest common denominator, and giving people products rather than tools (tools are more dangerous, but more useful), but maybe I’m just grumpy. It's from a culture that says more alarms = safer. Perhaps the people who design these things need an alarm to warn them of "alarm fatigue".

I disagree, It's about treating people as sheeple that the politicians need to supervise and teach.

Basically these brainrotten politicians consider themselves the only responsible ones that need to remove choices for the simpletons they administer because they (the politicians) know better.

That's the core of our current woke culture that has become the zeitgeist since the 2010, especially in Germany - and it's especially strong on the left side of the spectrum ... But can be observed across all current parties to varying degrees.

That causes the politicians to think more about what "should" society be like (from their "I know better" perspective), instead of looking at reality - consequently ignoring that what they're trying to create isn't even within the bounds of our technical capabilities right now. Yes you can get close, but close is not enough for such features

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