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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#481

Post by EA-3167 »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #397
EA-3167 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can answer this, since I have a new car with this camera and polarized sunglasses. MOST of the time it's good about telling when I'm looking and when I'm not, out of maybe... 5 alerts over the previous 8 months all, but one occurred when I was in fact looking away for one reason or another. Likewise when it's correct my lane-keeping it's been right about me drifting. Given how inattentive I see other drivers being,…

There is no way that training people not to worry is making us all safer. I don't even like how new cars have this thing where they will automatically hold the brake once stopped even if you let go. There is no way it's a net good to train people that running cars just stay where you put them like an inert object does.

The result for me has been pretty predictable, I'm getting a kind of corrective feedback so I drive in a way that prevents that feedback. The practical result is that imo I'm a better driver, I'm more aware of my lapses in attention, my tendency to overcorrect to the right, and so on.

I'm yet to experience a downside, this isn't like using "Autopilot" or some other situation where a machine is taking over for me. I don't see why our skills or caution would be lessened by exposure to realtime feedback.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#482

Post by dmitrygr »

ajross wrote: post #39
dmitrygr wrote: post #14

This sort of nonsense is well studied in aeronautical world, and will lead to too many alerts, which, in turn, lead to predictable outcomes: https://flightsafety.org/asw-article/normalization-of-devian...

Very different threat model though. Commercial aircraft aren't sensitive to keep-your-eyes-on-the-road failures with seconds-scale latencies, airlines require autopilot use, there is a copilot present at all times, the FAA very strictly regulates work hours and substance use, etc... Sure, don't nag a pilot who is already very well backstopped by the existing solutions. Your uncle coming back from the bar at 2am doesn…

Repeated nuisance alarms have the same effect on all humans, not just on pilots - it trains them to ignore the alarms. Eventually this will lead to non-nuisance alarms being ignored and lives being lost.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#483

Post by HDBaseT »

fckgw wrote: post #365
0x000xca0xfe wrote: post #348

Every year it feels more surprising how motorcycling is still allowed. No seatbelt, no ABS, no problem...

Motorcyclists don't usually kill an entire generation of people when they T-bone a mid-sized sedan in an intersection. That's the problem.

Wearing a seatbelt or not doesn't also prevent a family getting killed, yet its strict in cars, but not on bikes? What gives?

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#484

Post by 1e1a »

I read a paper a while ago (which I have failed to locate) which used around binary masks, each in front of a single photodiode, as input to a neural network, which estimated the number of people in front of this effectively ~9-pixel "camera". The binary masks and NN weights were trained at the same time. Presumably, something like this could be used to detect lack of driver focus in a far less invasive manner.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#485

Post by xienze »

throw2ih020 wrote: post #407
xienze wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also seemed really accurate. It's really not. When I'm cruising on the highway I like to rest my right wrist on the top of the wheel, which blocks the sensor. "Watch the road" "Watch the road" "Watch the road"

> When I'm cruising on the highway I like to rest my right wrist on the top of the wheel, which blocks the sensor. Won't this shatter your wrist if your airbag deploys? I remember being taught to hold the sides of the wheel in driving class.

There's theory and there's practice. In theory you're supposed to maintain 10 and 2 at all times. In practice, that gets fatiguing over long trips.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#486

Post by stephen_g »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Noticed this with hire cars, we have 'school zones' that only operate within certain times (like 7am - 9am and 2pm - 4pm) and new cars pick up the 40 km/h from the sign but obviously aren't smart enough to read the times and realise it's not in effect, so the car thinks you're speeding by 20 km/h and you get all these beeps and bobs.

I also had one that couldn't tell the difference between a speed sign and a speed 'ahead' sign so it'd start screaming at you hundreds of metres before you reach the actual speed zone!

Then there was the fun of driving on a highway at 110 km/h (I think with a friend with a Tesla) and we passed a school bus that had a '40 km/h when lights flashing' sign on the back but with 40 is in the red circle like our speed signs (like [1]). So the car decided that was the speed of the road and the cruise control suddenly slammed on the brakes! Obviously the lights were not flashing (and wouldn't unless it was stopped at a bus stop and letting off children) but the car is also not smart to interpret any of that!

I'm glad neither of the cars our family owns has any of these features!

1. https://www.austockphoto.com.au/image/40-when-lights-flash-s...

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#487

Post by brewdad »

Swizec wrote: post #448
vladvasiliu wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IIRC, veering from the lane is the cause of most collisions, so it makes sense to have this. My dad's Toyota has this. The issue is it seems to have a hard time actually centering itself in the lane, so it'll just sway from side to side like a drunk driver if the lane is somewhat narrow. And you can forget about driving on secondary roads, which usually don't have markings on the sides. It'll keep trying to drive i…

> Then there's the collision detection thing. It's basically guaranteed to beep at me whenever I enter my parents' narrow street with cars parked on both sides. Some of my worst driving experiences have been with collision detection + auto brake. You try to enter a narrow steep hill driveway and it slams on the brakes with half your car hanging out into [potentially] oncoming traffic. Thanks, car Or you try to speed…

You really shouldn’t make speeding up to make the light a habit but, I get it, there are certainly times where that’s the safer option than slamming on the brakes.

Fun when your car makes you do both at once.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#488

Post by Scoundreller »

projektfu wrote: post #439
Scoundreller wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno why these programs never took a sampling approach and data-mined which makes/models/years to target the next year/cycle.

The only way to have affordable, ubiquitous testing stations is to make it universal. At least, in states that do not also require safety inspections. If only 10,000 cars were tested each year, nobody would buy the equipment.

Mass (low-value) testing is only more affordable if you value people’s time at $0/hr

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#490

Post by cucumber3732842 »

moffkalast wrote: post #288
peterlk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over Christmas, I spent several minutes trying to debug my beeping dashboard - it only seemed to happen sometimes while driving, so stopping didn’t let me figure it out. Eventually I discovered that it was beeping at me because my eyes weren’t on the road enough. Of course, figuring that out required me to take my eyes off the road to figure out which blinking signal was associated with this particular alarm. Also, b…

Driving4answers had a similar rant recently about the 2024 Prius, where there's an always-on warning beep every time you enter an intersection, which intrusively pulls away your attention in the exact moment when you need to be focusing on the road the most. I'll be surprised if it doesn't cause someone to die in the coming years. Laws for drivers written by people with chauffeurs.

> Laws for drivers written by people with chauffeurs.

Not even that. They know the laws are stupid. They don't care. It's just another day at work for them. They're trying to surgically write laws to garner support/votes from shorsighted hand wringing Karens (plenty of examples in HN comments) while also not actually hurting industry/donors.

So stupid rules and stupid beeps are what you get.

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