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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#511

Post by frollogaston »

afandian wrote: post #304
gotski wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar situation with a rental car, driving on winding roads. The beeping happened periodically as I was driving around hairpin bends, and the eye detection was triggered by me turning my head to look towards the oncoming sharp corner. Not the best situation to have a "safety" alert start chastising you!

I wonder if it’s malicious compliance on the part of the manufacturers. They can trivially determine if their tech is effective. Making it mandatory, despite the problems they must surely know about, might produce some democratic pressure for more nuanced legislation.

It'd be a bold strategy, cause in the meantime everyone says "never buy a Kia!" (or whatever brand, but Kia is the usual suspect)

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#512

Post by jojobas »

thi2 wrote: post #453
aenis wrote: post #187

If I hate anything about the EU, its the morons writing regulations for cars. My car constantly distracts me with some beeps, sometimes loud enough to be dangerous. Its surely one of the reasons far right is on the rise -- with things like 'drivers party' in some European countries winning serious votes. I spend 1-2hrs in the car each day, and I hate what those regulations did to driving. (Worst offenders: Japanese c…

More than once did my lane assistant try to run me into the barrier in a construction zone. You can turn it off, however its on again after on the next start... And all this comes with insanely high priced repairs that you cant really DIY anymore.

Once on a rental car brake assist decided I'm about to hit something on a kerb in a curve on a wet highway. I was using maybe 50% tire grip to corner and sudden braking took it over 100%. 1/10 would not recommend.

Sure this sort of systems might reduce overall death toll by addressing worst suspects like drunk or distracted drivers but I'm pretty sure they makes it worse for diligent ones.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#513

Post by ajross »

dmitrygr wrote: post #482
ajross wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very different threat model though. Commercial aircraft aren't sensitive to keep-your-eyes-on-the-road failures with seconds-scale latencies, airlines require autopilot use, there is a copilot present at all times, the FAA very strictly regulates work hours and substance use, etc... Sure, don't nag a pilot who is already very well backstopped by the existing solutions. Your uncle coming back from the bar at 2am doesn…

Repeated nuisance alarms have the same effect on all humans, not just on pilots - it trains them to ignore the alarms. Eventually this will lead to non-nuisance alarms being ignored and lives being lost.

That depends on "repeated" and "nuisance". My experience in a Tesla is that the attention monitoring never has false positive alarms at all. And it 100% has caught situations where I'm head down in the cockpit on autopilot in ways that, honestly, I probably shouldn't have been. So there's a single data point saying you're wrong.

This kind of counter-intuitive/smarter-than-the-obvious pontification is a HN smell to me. Most of the time the obvious solution is correct. Driver attention management is one of the biggest (maybe the biggest) contributors to accident rate, and IMHO probably deserves some assistive technology attention. If the reverse is true, it needs actual evidence and not an attempt to reason from aviation evidence (a regime where inattention is NOT a major problem!).

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#514

Post by bob1029 »

webstrand wrote: post #500
WalterBright wrote: post #376

Boeing found out the problem with "beeping" alarms. The first time they installed a warning horn, I think it was the stall warning, it was a big success. So, they started adding different horns for other situations. At one point, in an emergency, the pilot got confused about which horn meant what, and had an accident. So now, Boeing replaced horns with a voice, like "pull up". Sounds obvious, right? But car beeps gen…

Class D amplifiers use that same trick, just at much higher switching frequencies (pushing quantization noise ultrasonic, where it can be filtered). Since transistors are most efficient when fully on/off, very little power is wasted as heat. That's what made the modern revolution in tiny amps possible.

It's pretty amazing what you can get in terms of power density these days.

https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Power-Amplifier-IRS2092S-Chan...

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#515

Post by cptskippy »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

> looking at you, Volkswagen

I have a new Volkswagen and there's an annoying amount of arrogance behind the technology decisions in the vehicle that really sour the experience.

Perhaps the most annoying is that many notifications like "you can't do that while driving" are toast style notifications that disappear before you can notice or read them.

It has 360 degree cameras but it gets to decide when you can activate them. Want to know if you have enough room on the passenger side to go around a vehicle stopped in front of you without scratching up your tires? Too bad, the car doesn't detect a parking spot.

Wireless charger refuses to charge phone and puts up a notification saying it can't charge it any time you place your phone on it. There's a menu setting to disable the wireless charger, and that puts up a persistent notification telling you to re-enable wireless charging.

You put the re-circulation fan on, perhaps because you don't like smelling exhaust fumes? Car quietly turns it off again in the not to distant future.

You adjusted your volume, car readjusts it for you because reasons. You can see some of those reasons buried deep in the menu system, but not all of them. Car will adjust your volume again at a later date without your consent.

The car sends notifications about the status of the car but doesn't update or remove them when they're no longer true. I wake up most mornings to several "Your doors are unlocked" notifications but the doors are locked. Did they unlock? Why did they unlock? How long were they unlocked? Nobody knows...

Walk away car locking? Works 100% of the time when get out of the car at home and walk two feet away from the car. Fails to work the first time you park it downtown and someone rifles through your car and steals your charging adapter.

You got home and are unloading groceries from the trunk, the car is going to honk at you that the trunk is ajar before you can even get inside the house. You'll receive alerts on your phone that the trunk is open as well.

Car honks any time a door is left open or the car isn't locked even if you're standing less than 2 feet from the car holding the key.

You have a charge schedule setup so your car only charges during off-peak times. Want to charge at a pay-charger or outside of that schedule? Sure, just click the button on screen which permanently disables the charge schedule and requires to you go deep into menus to re-enable it.

Similar situation with State of Charge limits. Want to charge to 100% for a road trip? Sure that's the new permanent setting, and we're going to remind you it's bad to charge to 100% all the time.

Tesla gets dumped for so much, but their software is so well tuned compared to this garbage.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#516

Post by frollogaston »

ShellfishMeme wrote: post #176
sixtyj wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine driving thru night with kids sleeping and suddenly car starts beeping. Is there a way how to switch sensors off for similar situations?

You can switch them off but only until the engine is turned off again. Most manufacturers have a shortcut on the dashboard or steering wheel though. Eventually you just get used to doing that every time you start driving.

That works. I already got so used to disabling ESC on start that I do it unconsciously at this point, can't even recall afterwards that I did it. (My car is old and has a glitchy ESC)

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#517

Post by bigstrat2003 »

Dries007 wrote: post #33
awakeasleep wrote: post #9

Ford has had that since Blue Cruise 2.0, or thereabouts. It really shocked me how often it catches my attention being diverted. Things like talking to my passengers, adjusting the climate controls, or eating- I'm not even talking about 'advanced distractions' like my phone. It also seemed really accurate. I never remember it beeping at me when I was actually paying attention. It's totally plausible to me that this ki…

My experience with my Volvo EX30 has been the complete opposite. Although the false positives have gone down with software updates, it's still wrong so often I turn it off every time it bothers me. Due to some other regulation, this setting is unfortunately not remembered. That means every time I get in the car, I have to spend time going trough the settings to disable it, often while already driving. Seems like a gr…

My wife's Volvo XC40 Recharge is the first Volvo we've ever had, and it's certainly the last I'll ever have (can't speak for her). The software is so flaky. The map screen on the dash doesn't load sometimes, the side mirrors don't tilt down (which they are set to do) when reversing half the time, and every so often the sound completely stops working in the car without a hard reboot of the info system. To make matters worse, it turns out that car operation signals (like turn signal clicks) play through the stereo, so when that happens you are driving without important audio cues because they were too damn cheap to put electronic clickers in the dash.

It's probably the worst car I've ever owned, worse even than cars I got for way cheaper than the $50-60k they wanted for this thing. Never again, fuck Volvo.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#519

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

xienze wrote: post #485
throw2ih020 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I'm cruising on the highway I like to rest my right wrist on the top of the wheel, which blocks the sensor. Won't this shatter your wrist if your airbag deploys? I remember being taught to hold the sides of the wheel in driving class.

There's theory and there's practice. In theory you're supposed to maintain 10 and 2 at all times. In practice, that gets fatiguing over long trips.

So what you’re saying is we need pressure sensors on the wheel to verify you’re holding it correctly?

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#520

Post by mattrighetti »

Gigachad wrote: post #399
joenot443 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's totally plausible to me that this kind of nudge will save a lot of lives. I think an in-car breathalyzer which gates the ignition would also save a lot of lives. Most people agree that kind of manufactured paternalism is an overreach and would be against its introduction. Other people say the same about the diverted driving detector, and I imagine others said the same about the seatbelt sensor. The intersectio…

It only sounds like overreach because we have become numb to an incredible amount of killing from distracted drivers.

Did a quick research and saw that in 2024 there were around 12k deaths in which one or more drunk drivers were involved. Doesn’t seem like much for a country with around 350 million people. In comparison, drug causes 7x those deaths. Cancer and heart diseases even more.
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