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Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

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Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#241

Post by jt2190 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #116

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

> In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators.

I don’t think this is actually true. What’s your source for this? States set K-12 curriculum.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#242

Post by mcphage »

buellerbueller wrote: post #219
mcphage wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since there are no libraries with space for every book (ever), then there is no censorship? When people ban books because they don't want others to learn about trans people, they're usually pretty vocal about their motivations.

>When people ban books because they don't want others to learn about trans people, they're usually pretty vocal about their motivations. You assume they are vocal about their motivations, because how could you possibly know, if they claim it under cover of "not enough shelf space"?

Well, maybe a lot of people do keep it secret… that’s true. But plenty of people do not keep it secret.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#243

Post by amanaplanacanal »

suburban_strike wrote: post #234
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of books are getting banned from schools because they mention gay characters or other "woke" content. Not at all the same thing.

[flagged]

It's the school librarian's job to select books. These people are trained in childhood education.

Your imagination has clearly gone way off the deep end here. Reading that there are gay people doesn't turn people gay. If you think it does, that says more about you, I think.

Trying to hide the existence of gay people from children leads to homophobia from the straight kids, and mental health issues from the gay kids. You are dead wrong here.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#244

Post by amanaplanacanal »

frumplestlatz wrote: post #137
pfannkuchen wrote: post #116

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

Declining to buy and stock a book in a school library is not a ban at all. The book can still be printed, bought, and read. It can be brought into that same school, and read there. It’s not banned.

If the school declines to put a book in the library, that's not a ban. If people outside the school with power over the school demand that books be removed, that's a ban.

The groups demanding books be removed are often not even parents of children in the school. It external parties driving this stuff.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#245

Post by jchip303 »

beaker52 wrote: post #206
rsynnott wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... I mean, it's in Portugal. Are you expecting Russia or a Florida school board or whatever to bomb it?

I mean… yeah? Since when would being in Portugal stop a motivated power? Just ask Vadym Yermolaiev, Andriy Portnov, Emilian Gebrev or the staff at the warehouse in Vrbetice. Being in Portugal is an implementation detail. It’s a soft target, but it’s a _very easy_ soft target when people have a host of possible enemies who might be motivated to disrupt your operations to point fingers at. None of the powers you’re cri…

[dead]

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#247

Post by JuniperMesos »

grahamburger wrote: post #215
JuniperMesos wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're more likely to be aware of a library book curation decision where parents are publicly fighting to remove a book the school library management wants to keep; compared to a curation decision where the school library management simply never decides to make a book available to begin with.

Personally, I am OK with the library making their own curation decisions. That's part of how a library functions, I understand that they can't carry everything. I have a problem when zealous parents try to override those decisions, especially when they are motivated by political or religious worldviews. I think the Bible should be in school libraries (and it always has been), but if you're keeping it while removing o…

Do you think the librarians' choice about what books to stock in their library aren't motivated by political or religious worldviews? What kind of person becomes a school librarian? One motivation is that they want to influence what kinds of written information young people do and do not readily have access to.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#248

Post by mangodrunk »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #243
suburban_strike wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's the school librarian's job to select books. These people are trained in childhood education. Your imagination has clearly gone way off the deep end here. Reading that there are gay people doesn't turn people gay. If you think it does, that says more about you, I think. Trying to hide the existence of gay people from children leads to homophobia from the straight kids, and mental health issues from the gay kids.…

So you think parents should not have a say? Wouldn’t that be rather authoritarian to have whatever books and disregard criticism? Many librarians are activists and are choosing books that are not educational. They are actively selecting books that they agree with.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#249

Post by grahamburger »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #247
grahamburger wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I am OK with the library making their own curation decisions. That's part of how a library functions, I understand that they can't carry everything. I have a problem when zealous parents try to override those decisions, especially when they are motivated by political or religious worldviews. I think the Bible should be in school libraries (and it always has been), but if you're keeping it while removing o…

Do you think the librarians' choice about what books to stock in their library aren't motivated by political or religious worldviews? What kind of person becomes a school librarian? One motivation is that they want to influence what kinds of written information young people do and do not readily have access to.

I've known enough librarians to come to a belief that, in general, their curation decisions are more motivated by a love of books and learning than they are by the more divisive political issues of the day.

Of course, none of us can completely escape our own biases. That said, librarians aren't airdropped in to small towns from San Francisco; generally, they're local. If they're in a religious conservative community, it's pretty darn likely they are also religious and conservative. They have probably also had some education that helped them understand biases and how to practice avoiding them.

I find your implicit suggestion that there is some underground network of Leftys descending on small town America to become librarians and put LGBTQ books on the shelves laughably unserious. If you want to influence kids, go on tiktok or become a youth pastor or something. It's hard enough to get kids to read books they're actually interested in, you're not gonna get far as a librarian.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#250

Post by frumplestlatz »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #244
frumplestlatz wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Declining to buy and stock a book in a school library is not a ban at all. The book can still be printed, bought, and read. It can be brought into that same school, and read there. It’s not banned.

If the school declines to put a book in the library, that's not a ban. If people outside the school with power over the school demand that books be removed, that's a ban. The groups demanding books be removed are often not even parents of children in the school. It external parties driving this stuff.

Removing a book from the library is not a ban any more than a publisher rejecting a manuscript is a ban.

Declining to provide a book is not the same as prohibiting the possession, use, or distribution of a book.

As for “external parties”, schools in the US are public institutions.

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