Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again • Hacker News Board

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#331

Post by happytoexplain » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:12 PM UTC

eldaisfish wrote: post #294

simianwords wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this doesn't equate with other factors stereotypically associated who is suggesting this? what do you think the people in the survey are asked? They were asked if races exist and they definitely do. White people exist and Black people exist. Normal people won't read your research papers lmao. Colloquially, races do exist and normal people should think that races do exist.

these conversations are always incredibly frustrating. On one extreme are people who believe that white people are inherently better than black people because of some genetic inheritance. This is obvious nonsense. On the other extreme are the people like the one you are arguing with who claim that race does not exist because all humans are biologically identical. This is also nonsense as any black person in the US wi…

Is this thread just one big semantic misunderstanding, then? I think of ethnicity and race as casual synonyms, and when they are distinguished, I think of ethnicity as cultural ("Hispanic") and race as biological (genetically Spanish), both of which are very fuzzy. But it sounds like you're using the term "ethnicity" biologically, the way I would use the term "race", which I'm not used to.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#332

Post by FabCH » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:12 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #310

eldaisfish wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you say that a swiss german and someone from Hamburg have more in common than someone from Bavaria and someone from Helsinki?

That's an interesting question. Personally, I'd say the north of Germany has more in common with Danish and Dutch people than with Bavarians (who in turn have more in common with the Austrians than with us).

It’s a super interesting example because the Swiss German in the question would also vehemently disagree that they have anything in common with the German :)

I’m actually curious if the GP expects „yes“ or „no“ as an answer, because I couldn’t even say. It’s probably „yes“, but…

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#333

Post by IncreasePosts » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:15 PM UTC

denismenace wrote: post #260

IncreasePosts wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no unified "German" culture before Germany, so it doesn't make sense to talk about a "German" culture. Is it the northern maritime German? The southern Bavarian German? The Rhinelanders? The Swabians? Swiss germans? Northern Italian germans? Austrian Germans? There was the German ethnicity, and a mosaic of Germanic languages.

Nonsense. Just because there was no stricly "unifed" (whatever that means) German culture does not mean that German culture does not exist. There is clearly a shared core of culture and ethnicity to all the listed peoples. But again you can continue with trying to make it seem as if everything is equal to everything else. I'll leave you with this little thought experiment. If we put a northen German, a Swiss German a…

Why would German culture start before unification, but American culture pops out of nothing at the founding of the nation?

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#334

Post by Exoristos » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:15 PM UTC

chis wrote: post #221

malshe wrote: post #130

Here is my anecdote. I was in Germany recently and met with a South American woman. We briefly talked about our immigrant experiences. She is now a German citizen married to a German man. However, she said she can't identify as a German because nobody made her feel like one. By contrast, when I became an American citizen, my American friends (white and hispanic) insisted that they attend the naturalization ceremony.

It is an interesting divide. "German" is both an ethnicity and a citizenship, and it's possible to become one but not the other. "American" on the other hand is purely a citizenship, and so it is possible to become an American after immigrating.

> "American" on the other hand is purely a citizenship ...

This may be how you perceive or feel about it, and of course you're not alone, but many other Americans feel differently. Those of us with Colonial ancestors maintained much the same culture and mores for generations; it's evident in the manners and the literature; it's something distinct that we certainly feel as close to an ethnicity. Granted, we comprise multiple European heritages, but those heritages did not define any of us after a few generations. The concept I am trying to outline her is also a very old one: e.g., first Speaker of the House Frederick Muhlenberg, referring to some of his own constituents, said, "The faster the Germans become Americans, the better it will be."

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#335

Post by marseysneed » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:17 PM UTC

justacrow wrote: post #300

ryandrake wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There are many immigrant-majority communities in the USA where you can live most of your day-to-day without needing to speak much English.

Any $200k+ SW engineering jobs?

In the bay area you can get away with very little english proficiency

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#336

Post by dudul » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:20 PM UTC

ikut3hva wrote: post #165

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

How do you live 6 years in a country without reaching B1?

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#337

Post by aleph_minus_one » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:21 PM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #311

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> she said she can't identify as a German because nobody made her feel like one As a native German, I actually have difficulties with concepts like "identifying as [nationality]", "feeling like [nationality]" or "naturalization". I really would say these are concepts that US-Americans (or people who were "shaped" by US mentality) seem to deeply care about, but Germans very typically don't. So, my opinion/advice is: s…

I can only speculate, but usually when such phrases come up, it's about things like not being part of the in-group - people they know throwing parties and not inviting them, etc.

> I can only speculate, but usually when such phrases come up, it's about things like not being part of the in-group - people they know throwing parties and not inviting them, etc.

Concerning "part of the in-group": It is very usual that in Germany, you don't become a "friend" fast (the German translation of "friend", [der] Freund, has a much deeper meaning than the US-American understanding of the English word). Friendship is much deeper and takes much longer to establish, but is also there to stay.

The same is said about Nordic countries.

If you come from a country where you become a friend much faster, but in a much more shallow sense, you will indeed likely be disappointed.

My advice based on my feelings/observations:

- If you do shallow smalltalk (as it is very common in the USA), you signal that you only want a shallow relationship. If you want a deep friendship, better bring something deep to the table.

- In particular referring to the point "people they know throwing parties and not inviting them": I would really say that life in Germany is much more "live your own life" (which is also what I wrote in my post above: "Otherwise, she should live her life."), i.e. you do much more things on your own. For me, for example, a very common evening is filled with learning (which I do on my own).

I would really say that a lot of life in Germany is organized around "if you don't have anybody to do something specific together (and be it because of different interests), you simply do things alone on your own". There is simply not a feeling of urgency/necessity to socialize if not both sides profit from it.

With this in mind, I think that "people they know throwing parties and not inviting them" is not something that you will commonly experience (and people likely would consider this to be unfair), it's rather "people not throwing parties, so you are not invited to a (non-existing :-) ) party".

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#338

Post by TMWNN » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:21 PM UTC

xhevahir wrote: post #185

FinnLobsien wrote: post #178

I‘m German, but I no longer live in Germany, so I can’t relate to the experience of immigrating to Germany. I think a big part of the issue is a certain German presumptuousness. There’s a general sense that Germany is a prosperous, influential country. The reason for that must be that things are done correctly in Germany. I think this is an inherited attitude that doesn’t really correspond to reality anymore as syste…

I spent a day or so traveling through Germany with my parents a few weeks ago as part of a (much longer) trip and a common refrain during that day was, "So much for German efficiency." Frankfurt's airport was a tiring and frustrating experience, with long delays on the tarmac, at baggage claim, at the check-in counter, etc. One rest stop on the highway was half way dismantled, with restrooms filthy enough that everyb…

>I spent a day or so traveling through Germany with my parents a few weeks ago as part of a (much longer) trip and a common refrain during that day was, "So much for German efficiency."

I've heard it said that the idea that Germans are efficient is a myth. (The new Berlin airport is one example.)

Germans are, rather, *rule followers*.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#339

Post by FabCH » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:21 PM UTC

gehwartzen wrote: post #157

parheric wrote: post #20

I've been here for a decade, and sadly I feel the issue is upward mobility for skilled workers. Unless you're working for an intl company, with ex-pats in positions of leadership, your chances of "getting ahead" are going to be limited, especially when you're competing against natives. The reason is sadly, the culture is very reserved and cautious, so as an "outsider" it's going to take A LONG time before you can be…

One thing I will point out is that some of this partially due to coming to Germany with a US passport. Specifically, banks in Europe are increasingly weary of allowing US passport holders to open full account due to the international reach of the IRS and the additional bourdons it creates for banks. A US citizen living abroad still has a responsibilities with regard to reporting financial activities to the IRS. This…

Your aunt is sort of correct, but not really.

If you move to CH on your German EU passport, register at the local authorities and get your residency card, most traditional Swiss banks will open an account for you. You just won’t be able to do it online or with the Neo-banks. But an actual physical UBS office or Kantonbank will eventually be able to handle the paperwork for you.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#340

Post by stickfigure » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 10:22 PM UTC

dghlsakjg wrote: post #275

stickfigure wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that - excepting about 1.4% of the population - everyone here in the US is either an immigrant or descended from immigrants. Most of them long after the Mayflower sailed. However long it takes to create a new capital-E Ethnicity, it hasn't been long enough.

Who cares if most people in the US had ancestors that came from somewhere else? My English ancestors have precisely no bearing on the way I live my life any more than my German, Dutch or Polish (well, they came from what is now Poland, but would never have thought of themselves as polish). The child of immigrants in Germany is going to be far more German than I am despite my ancestry. American culture is undeniably r…

Ethnicity is a social construct with some fuzzy boundaries, but I don't think anyone credible tries to claim that there is an "American Ethnicity". Usually when that term comes up it's from some racist overly proud that someone in their ancestry came over on the Mayflower.

Personally I think it's one of the strengths of this country that a first generation immigrant can come here and become an American. I don't think this is very common around the world.