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Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

heise.de

221–230 of 282 posts

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#221
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want them to win. The internet is stupid right now. A culture eating its own tail.

Pray tell, how would stepping closer to a dystopian hellscape help the internet from eating itself? Somehow, having omnipotent watchers is going to make the internet... more fun and welcoming?

I think he means that maybe it‘s for the best if „the internet“ in its current state dies, i.e. people move on from the current platforms towards other ones or real life.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#222
post #100

I was curious to see how the MEPs voted, you can check it here. https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/195338 For once I'm pleasantly surprised that everyone I voted for was against.

This is so cryptic that I wouldn't even know if for or against would mean for or against 'chat control'

"For" means that the MEP voted for extension of Chat Control 1.0

"Against" means that the MEP voted against the extension of Chat Control 1.0

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#223

So many comments about the EU constantly re-trying the same law with minor tweaks, and about how legislatures do this in general. I wanted to provide an explanation for this behaviour. The way legislation is expected to proceed in countries with parliamentary systems, especially with strong civil services, is that 1) a problem is identified. This can be the civil service detecting it on their own, petitioning from gr…

Step 6 is entirely missing in the EU. The parliament doesn’t form a committee to debate and perhaps refine the law, it just votes on what is put before it.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#224

This is the anti-EU move but they simply don't understand that. Authoritarian centralization efforts need to be fought Huang style - with an European twist - as we might be behind on a lot of axis but we "Didn't Wake Up a Loser". China / US leadership must not be the carte-blanche to formalize whatever low bar in how we handle our own privacy; going straight for the "self own" I guess? Sorry for prompt mode but I hop…

Huang style? What does this mean?

Maybe a "lousy analogy" but here you go ;)

https://youtube.com/shorts/u3SY8nvjhQA

Don't give up on core tenets basically; the EU is a (comparatively) great place to live because it's a free place.

We can't have multitudes, be "antifragile" etc through centralization and surveillance.

Even if we were to believe this to be a winning move, it's not how this European project was envisioned and we won't ever be able to truly "compete" at that game.

In these times hence we IMO should be doubling down on the core tenets; freedom being chief amongst them.

Akin to how Huang in that interview alludes to globalization and how it made him / USA a winner.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the gold standard would be to present detailed arguments from each side with evidence (if any), for context. Barring that, the original question did seem to provide a rough summary of each side’s position. It may be weighted towards the anti Chat Control side, with the formulation “pro says this, but anti says this, and imagine that you are affected”. So perhaps they could have asked a reverse formulation 5…

What scanning means, and how that might affect people and society, are precisely the issues in dispute. A poll which tries to provide arguments and evidence about contested issues cannot yield meaningful results. To pursue this line of reasoning, for example: > Your context-free formulation on the other hand provides no information for voters to weigh. Privacy or child porn detection? Well I guess I’ll pick child por…

Yes, and it would have been great if the EU had asked these sorts of questions publicly to develop its policy. Instead it was developed mostly behind closed doors, and it was up to politicians like Breyer to oppose this in Parliament. He presented the question as a political opponent would, although he gave an “out” for people who disagree—you can still answer his question by supporting Chat Control if you feel most strongly about catching criminals.

I don’t think the voting result would be different if he had been even more fair about this question, as the poll is not something that MEPs are going to care about. This was clearly designed to be passed by any means necessary, and this time they got it through. But at least now people have a poll to use when they campaign to repeal it in the future, or when they want to point to the unrepresentative nature of EU decisions like this one.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#226
post #90
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how democratic of the EU Well, these are the MEPs elected by member states. We don’t like the outcome but this means chat control is well supported within the government of each country.

Is it really supported by the people, or just the politicians? If the former, the EU is an autocratic democracy. If the later, an autocratic oligarchy. Either way bad. Only true democracy in Europe is Switzerland where the people actually get to vote on laws.

Making it not illegal for Facebook to scan your DMs is not autocracy. (And we know Facebook does that whether it's legal or not.) To make it autocracy, at a minimum they'd have to mandate the scanning, which is Chat Control 2, which is still not passing.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only have to win once. You have to win every time.

To repeal it you only need to win once too.

The repeal would have to be proposed by the same people who proposed the law in the first place. The European Parliament can't initiate the process on its own.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#228

So many comments about the EU constantly re-trying the same law with minor tweaks, and about how legislatures do this in general. I wanted to provide an explanation for this behaviour. The way legislation is expected to proceed in countries with parliamentary systems, especially with strong civil services, is that 1) a problem is identified. This can be the civil service detecting it on their own, petitioning from gr…

> But the problem still exists, and the issue is still on the agenda. It's still a priority to solve.

People are pushing back on this every single time. Maybe it's time legislators read the room instead? Is there a step for this too?

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that you're trying to dunk on me but I don't get what the point is supposed to be. It's certainly possible to come up with other bad ways to ask the question. If someone was interested in genuinely understanding the public's opinion, rather than including a demand to take some particular perspective, they would ask things like "Do you support online platforms scanning all personal messages for child porn…

I suppose the gold standard would be to present detailed arguments from each side with evidence (if any), for context. Barring that, the original question did seem to provide a rough summary of each side’s position. It may be weighted towards the anti Chat Control side, with the formulation “pro says this, but anti says this, and imagine that you are affected”. So perhaps they could have asked a reverse formulation 5…

You could just write the simple effect of the law: "EUR02a. Facebook employees read your private messages. If they see child pornography, they will call the police."

It's important not to phrase it as "read your messages to detect child porn..." because that implies they won't do anything else with the messages, and Europe is a place where they still assume that if someone says they do X to do Y, they're only allowed to do Y and severely punished for doing anything else.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#230
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble with pictures is that when you share them online the platform will likely compress them before serving them to others, spoiling your steganography. I think text-in-text is the way to go. Decrypt that recipe for brownies into the actual message. For example: https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.20075

One can host their own private or semi-private forum, chat server, chan board, etc... and choose not to re-encode the images and/or permit .tar .7z .zip archives and so on. Keep the bots away with basic auth to minimize skiddie risk to platform RCE's. It's unlikely people can move their friends to their own platform but the best way I have found is to call it a "fall-back" platform for when Discord and others are tem…

Joining a private space that's set up for steganography, or facilitating such a space either by self hosting or by logging in somewhere as an administrator, is sort of at odds with the nothing-to-see-here approach that steganography takes. An adversary that has compromised one message can then use whatever metadata is intrinsic to that space to suss out which other plaintexts might contain a secret, and which other humans might be exchanging secrets in that place.

The ideal hiding space would be visible to the public, and indistinguishable from a mountain of other material that's visible to the public--especially if they don't have to log in to see it. That way if a message is found, the search for co-conspirators doesn't narrow at all.

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