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Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

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Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#221

Post by tough »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #116

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

One can only wonder how American Schools will talk about the current US Gov and presidents in a few decades...

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#222

Post by neetle »

throwitaway222 wrote: post #201
miyoji wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts are appropriate for feminists to perform and other adult topics. Why is it "authoritarianism" to say that a book like that doesn't belong in my kids' school library? Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries? It's authoritarian because it's about people with autho…

This take is pretty extreme. > Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries? parents If you want to go full anti-authoritarian, you are literally advocating anarchy. One in which you have no right to jail someone for killing someone else. There are many moral systems! Some of them are based in Christian ethics, which many people prescribe to. In fact it's the one the United…

> parents

Parent-based rights arguments are perfectly adequate for the 80%, but degenerate in some horrific ways for the rest of the population. We need community-level input on how to raise kids so that the leftover 20% don’t just get fucked up by parents that “know best for their kid”.

Anecdotally know of a few times where kids were taught that their molestation was their own fault (both sub-10yo), and had friends whose parents actively pushed them to kill themselves

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#223

Post by kasey_junk »

AlexandrB wrote: post #208
grahamburger wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That type of media was never in schools to begin with. The problem here is that schools and districts made their own, informed curation decisions, and those decisions are being overridden by zealous parents informed only by their religious and political persuasions.

The implication here is that schools are making these decisions on a neutral, apolitical basis - but this is not really possible, is it? As many on the left would say: "everything is political". So what we're discussing is (yet another) front in the "culture war", this time about what ideas and values children should be exposed to. Let's just be honest about that at least.

The banned books movement (on either side) is broadly not about curriculum. It’s about access in non-required spaces such as libraries and clubs.

The issue there isn’t that kids are being exposed to these items, the issue is that other parents are censoring what _my_ kid can be exposed to. They are infringing on _my_ rights.

Meanwhile I’m not requiring their kid to go into a library and checkout Maya Angelou.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#224

Post by subscribed »

stronglikedan wrote: post #149
croes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, make it part of the curriculum. Read it and shown how boring and stupid it is. Demystify such nonsense

> Read it and shown how boring and stupid it is. Except it's not, or it couldn't have continued to radicalize people to this very day.

People choose to commit atrocities in the name of the famous holy books - you either support banning them as well or concede there's something more to it.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#225

Post by miyoji »

AlexandrB wrote: post #199
miyoji wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts are appropriate for feminists to perform and other adult topics. Why is it "authoritarianism" to say that a book like that doesn't belong in my kids' school library? Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries? It's authoritarian because it's about people with autho…

You should think this through. The logical endpoint is that all age based content restrictions are "authoritarian". So it should be ok to stock movies like Martyrs[1] or Men Behind the Sun[2] in elementary school libraries, because who are parents and teachers to decide whether seeing a woman flayed to death or a child vivisected is something that a 6 year old should be allowed to see? My real takeaway here is that y…

> You should think this through. The logical endpoint is that all age based content restrictions are "authoritarian".

I do think that. It's rude to assume that I haven't thought my position through.

> So it should be ok to stock movies like Martyrs[1] or Men Behind the Sun[2] in elementary school libraries, because who are parents and teachers to decide whether seeing a woman flayed to death or a child vivisected is something that a 6 year old should be allowed to see?

Sure.

> My real takeaway here is that you probably don't have children.

I don't, but I was one, and I accessed all kinds of stuff on the internet that my parents and teachers didn't want me to see. Including gross violence and sex stuff. It didn't kill me. It didn't even hurt me. I'm fine. I'm a better person for having exposed myself to those things than I would be if I'd been sheltered from them.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#226

Post by throwitaway222 »

neetle wrote: post #222
throwitaway222 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take is pretty extreme. > Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries? parents If you want to go full anti-authoritarian, you are literally advocating anarchy. One in which you have no right to jail someone for killing someone else. There are many moral systems! Some of them are based in Christian ethics, which many people prescribe to. In fact it's the one the United…

> parents Parent-based rights arguments are perfectly adequate for the 80%, but degenerate in some horrific ways for the rest of the population. We need community-level input on how to raise kids so that the leftover 20% don’t just get fucked up by parents that “know best for their kid”. Anecdotally know of a few times where kids were taught that their molestation was their own fault (both sub-10yo), and had friends…

So that has nothing to do with what I said. Parents, and if 80% of parents are good people, then it makes sense that parents have a say what is in the school library. It also makes sense that if a parent is abusing a child, a teacher will see it.

I don't have a solution for you for all types of families, but this doesn't change that miyoji's take is fairly extreme.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#227

Post by bananaflag »

anthk wrote: post #198
mossTechnician wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the scare quotes: per my previous reply, is a ban not a ban regardless of who does it? Maus has nudity and curse words; that's why it was banned in Tennessee. 1984 has multiple sex scenes - the well-funded Christian publication PluggedIn[0] rates it 18+. Two things can be true at the same time: a book can be both banned in one place, and used to promote someone's brand in another. Somebody in a dee…

In Europe every kid over 13 would buy both with no issues at all. 1984's sex scenes are so-so and something that just happens in the background like nothing.

Indeed, after reading the book I was surprised that the movie has explicit frontal nudity.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#228

Post by grahamburger »

glimshe wrote: post #122
pfannkuchen wrote: post #116

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

I've banned a number of books from my household as I don't want my child exposed to them. And I support banning them from the school. Children aren't adults. It's reasonable to expect that education caters to a common denominator within society. I would only have a problem if adults couldn't acquire these books.

Note that children do become adults while in (high) school. It's common for book-banners to imply that they are removing books from elementary school kids when they are actually removing them from adults and almost-adults in high schools.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#229

Post by throwitaway222 »

miyoji wrote: post #225
AlexandrB wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should think this through. The logical endpoint is that all age based content restrictions are "authoritarian". So it should be ok to stock movies like Martyrs[1] or Men Behind the Sun[2] in elementary school libraries, because who are parents and teachers to decide whether seeing a woman flayed to death or a child vivisected is something that a 6 year old should be allowed to see? My real takeaway here is that y…

> You should think this through. The logical endpoint is that all age based content restrictions are "authoritarian". I do think that. It's rude to assume that I haven't thought my position through. > So it should be ok to stock movies like Martyrs[1] or Men Behind the Sun[2] in elementary school libraries, because who are parents and teachers to decide whether seeing a woman flayed to death or a child vivisected is…

But now in a vacuum you're advocating from your position (not being a parent) but being a human, that because you turned out ok, that everyone else will. There is no numbers, no statistics, just your anecdote here. Which is ok, but that's why two people immediately called your opinion out as being extreme.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#230

Post by [deleted] »

kasey_junk wrote: post #223
AlexandrB wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implication here is that schools are making these decisions on a neutral, apolitical basis - but this is not really possible, is it? As many on the left would say: "everything is political". So what we're discussing is (yet another) front in the "culture war", this time about what ideas and values children should be exposed to. Let's just be honest about that at least.

The banned books movement (on either side) is broadly not about curriculum. It’s about access in non-required spaces such as libraries and clubs. The issue there isn’t that kids are being exposed to these items, the issue is that other parents are censoring what _my_ kid can be exposed to. They are infringing on _my_ rights. Meanwhile I’m not requiring their kid to go into a library and checkout Maya Angelou.

[deleted]
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