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Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

fightchatcontrol.eu

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Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#41

[flagged]

> Political groups are factions of the Parliament, while parties are alliances of national parties at EU level, funded through the EU budget. Neither the group in the Parliament nor the lawmakers will face any consequence if ESN loses its status as a European party.

It’s important to note the lawmakers stay in office even if the European party is banned.

Europe is also not the US and from my knowledge it seems that this is the only party suspected of not complying with values. There are many many more parties that they are not trying to ban.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but expecting EU to clean up after the US shooting itself in the foot Please don't pretend to misunderstand a point just to manufacture the opportunity to reply in bad faith. Nobody in EU is saying the EU should clean up others' mess around the world, people are just saying the EU should be busy building domestic capacity and capabilities to insulate itself from the issues caused by others around the world, such as…

> Nobody in EU is saying the EU should clean up others' mess around the world That's literally what the top poster said. Your points make sense, "EU should reopen Hormuz" is laughable

Either the EU opens Hormuz or the EU pays twice the pre war rate for gas / oil indefinitely. Of course at least they can put the subjects that bitch about it in jail now.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here. I am all for european panationalism but don't pretend that Europe is "your house" where "your ancestors" were. You come from a very specific culture inside it which has its own specific language and traditions and that has spent most its history warring with its neighbours, sometimes people in the next village speaking a different version of your lanuage. My ancestors and y…

>Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here Would you also tell that to native American Indians? Or to the Japanese? Or to the Indians? It's no BS unless you've been brainwashed and make massive efforts to ignore reality. Blood based belonging to a place is hardwired in every culture and society on the planet, from Asia to the Americas. NA, UK, AU, NZ, and the EU just have added a lot of PR paint on top to pretend it…

> Taking away people's privacy and freedom of speech is a little more problematic than just "a little bureaucracy"

I mean yes but it is ultimately your framing. It's concerning and worth being fought against but no worse that what US was, is or has tried to do, and despite the corrupt buffoon at its head right now, it is not a dictatorship yet. What we need is a good balance of powers and well-designed institutions, and not as you suggested, to destroy it.

> That WAS an achievement in the past, but if you dissolve the EU institution tomorrow, no former EU member state will suddenly got to war with their neighbour just because the EU doesn't exist anymore. So the myth that the EU is preventing war in EU is bogus. That was history, this is today.

Fair enough but that does not warrant the use of the past, it IS an achievement. Also, give it time and history will do its thing. Remove the EU and, sooner or later, war will come back. The same way that if you remove the counter-powers, tyranny will come back

EDIT: You added this part about in response to my blood and soil line afterwards:

> It's no BS unless you've been brainwashed and make massive efforts to ignore reality. Blood based tribalism and ingroup preference is hardwired in every culture and society on the planet, from Asia to the Americas. NA, UK, AU, NZ, and the EU just have added a lot of PR paint on top to pretend it doesn't exist in their liberal societies, but it does except it's much more under the table and subversive.

Interesting how people seem to think reality is on their side and people who think otherwise must have been brainwashed.

Anyways, is it hardwired or is it "soft" wired ? Are we only responding to our wiring or did we manage to create cultures around it or are we condemned to an endless loop of prewired behaviours ?

Sexual desire is also "hardwired" in us and yet we finally managed to no rape each other based on dominance hierarchies. Is that the kind of society you are looking forward to ? One based on some kind of supposedly natural order ?

Yes tribalism does exist, we know what kind of world it produces. It's utter shit. Poverty and misery for everyone but the people at the top.

I swear you people are so bored that you cannot appreciate the sheer amount of material wealth you are effing bathing in. You dream of an heroic past that never existed where you get to be the hero.

Ha the times where being a man with no other skills than violence could get you riches ! Let's conveniently forget about most people, living under the boot in a life of injustice and life-threatening poverty.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#44

As a EU citizen I’m at a loss for what to do about this. I feel that they’re going against any average citizen’s interest. What can we do to make them stop?

Vote for parties that oppose this nonsense. In the meantime, install Linux on your desktop/laptop, and a free Android variant on a compatible phone. Use Signal, and urge your family and friends to do the same.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here. I am all for european panationalism but don't pretend that Europe is "your house" where "your ancestors" were. You come from a very specific culture inside it which has its own specific language and traditions and that has spent most its history warring with its neighbours, sometimes people in the next village speaking a different version of your lanuage. My ancestors and y…

>Europe is imperfect but it has rejected the idea of war outside of itself. I don't think any European citizen would go to war with their neighbour. Just that is an amazing achievement. Not really. South American countries don't go to war with each other and they don't have a union. Nor do central American countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paquisha_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenepa_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagle_conflict

And that's not counting the Falklands war because Britain doesn't feel like it belong in the neighborhood but it's still an invasion of sovereign territory out of nationalistic motives

I'll grant none of those was a major conflict and that it's an interesting case but still. Maybe the fact that apart from Brazil, they have a language in common makes it harder to sell the neighbour as a foreigner ? What else could it be ? I am genuinely curious

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dismantling the EU is like burning down your own house just to get rid of flies. I don't like this comparison at all. Europe, the land that housed, fed and scarified my ancestors, is my house, not this supra-governmental corrupt bureaucratic institution called the EU that does not represent me nor speak in my name. Empires, monarchies, governments and all such man-made institutions like the EU get torn down all time…

Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here. I am all for european panationalism but don't pretend that Europe is "your house" where "your ancestors" were. You come from a very specific culture inside it which has its own specific language and traditions and that has spent most its history warring with its neighbours, sometimes people in the next village speaking a different version of your lanuage. My ancestors and y…

>Let's stop the blut and soil BS

do you feel the same way when Africans speak of Africa?

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#47
post #5

EU politicians spend more time on chat control than on the reopening of Hormuz or EU energy security. It is a complete joke.

> EU politicians spend more time on chat control than on the reopening of Hormuz I thought I'd heard it all here on HN, but expecting EU to clean up after the US shooting itself in the foot with a completely unnecessary war probably comes somewhere in top 5 easily.

> US shooting itself in the foot with a completely unnecessary war probably comes somewhere in top 5 easily.

We aren't done yet. Game on after the midterms.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#48
post #31

I don't understand. How does it affect encrypted messages? It seems like either you need: 1. allow MITM decryption by a privileged authority 2. require all devices doing E2EE have a non-user-modifiable piece of functionality to scan on-device The second is the Apple style on-device CSAM scanner? I have to say that I do sometimes think about it while taking a photo of my baby playing in the bathtub - photos like my pa…

Platforms will stop offering E2EE . Didn't Instagram abandon E2EE ?

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here. I am all for european panationalism but don't pretend that Europe is "your house" where "your ancestors" were. You come from a very specific culture inside it which has its own specific language and traditions and that has spent most its history warring with its neighbours, sometimes people in the next village speaking a different version of your lanuage. My ancestors and y…

>Europe is imperfect but it has rejected the idea of war outside of itself. I don't think any European citizen would go to war with their neighbour. Just that is an amazing achievement. Not really. South American countries don't go to war with each other and they don't have a union. Nor do central American countries.

> South American countries don't go to war with each other

No? Here are some examples I found:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian%E2%80%93Bolivian_War_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian%E2%80%93Bolivian_War_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_War

You may argue these were all in the 19th century, and that is true. It's possible South America learned their lesson from the world wars. An alternative explanation is the presence of the US. It was never going to let another regional power roll up smaller states in the Western hemisphere so there was no point in being expansionist.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#50

To everyone who wants to dismantle the EU: this is not the solution. Dismantling the EU is like burning down your own house just to get rid of flies. The UK left the EU and implemented its own version of chat control - Online Safety Act - without any transparency or real opposition. The right solution is the political fight. Europe is our home. We must keep it in good shape by getting rid of anything that makes it wo…

Of course Americans want us to dismantle the EU, we are even weaker against US influence without it.
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